Do UK dealers overrate their LP's?

But very good ain't. We have good, fair, and poor below. But most people don't use those. The problem is these people want to sell the records, and because the whole load of preconceptions that even dealers get caught up in (it's old, looks good for it's age, records naturally play with crackle, those old pressings play well no matter what), they'll virtually always grade as VG because they might get away with it.

I love it when sellers put 'collection filler only' or ' don't think it's going to play any better than i graded it'. Honesty!

 

It's funny, because you're absolutely right. I've gotten it into my head that VG is the lowest possible grade because I've never seen anyone list a record with a lesser grade. I've gotten some very poor VG records... D- for sure.

And I've also gotten some very good ones. My best experiences on eBay are when I buy "Very Good Condition" records at reasonable prices from mom 'n pop thrift shops... these have almost always been country records.

 

haha - it's funny, because I don't think i've ever heard a collector complain that they got a steal because some less knowledgeable person who totally undergraded the record. And strangely enough - that can happen! I took a chance once on G+ LP because it was really rare and didn't sound too bad from the description. turned out to be hardly played... I didn't send it back or complain!

 

Oh I look for them all the time - the sellers who dont sell records are sometimes the best place to find a hidden bargain - they undergrade frequently. I once got a black label "Love Me Do" for 7 pounds off an antique dealer which was described as "looks good" - I just wanted it for the variation - it was completely unplayed.

A lot of the observations in this thread about sellers being less than 'honest' about their products leads me to say caveat emptor. You must do your homework and really, most sellers arent going to just give it away. They will try it on.
Just last week an seller pulled a copy of Oldies but Goldies (Beatles- sorry ) because someone had told him it was a rare variation it had 1G in the matrix - i told him that all Oldies have 1G in the matrix it the stampers that need to be 1G - its reappeared this week starting at 50 pounds - for a 10 pound VG+ record).

 

I'm not sure it is a UK thing, but there is plenty of bad grading out there. Ebay for sure is full of sellers who are not dealers and know nothing about record grading, so it's basically a crapshoot.

That said, and I may have said this before, the goldmine system is outdated and vague. It basically sucks. We really need a new standard in this hobby, one with more granularity and specificity. I think a 100 point scale (0 to 10.0), like the way comic books are graded, would be best.

 

This a good explanation of why the grades lower than VG even exist, as no collectors and audiophiles want that junk. As you say, it was for people who were desperate to hear the recordings, which were not available any other way.

Nowadays even a visit to youtube can instantly provide a preferable listening experience, much better IMO than a trashed piece of vinyl.

 

I really had erased the grades lower than VG from my memory... they're never used. Which is understandable because nobody is going to bid on a 'Poor' quality record on Ebay unless it's a Butcher Baby cover or something.

 

Funny this thread is timely. A friend has just been subject to two ridiculously overgraded Lps via UK Ebay dealers.

 

When I lived in the UK my split between UK/US purchases was about 65/35 and felt Uk sellers overgraded far more often. I wasn't shy about telling people either and agreed with the complaints made by others.

Now that I live in Canada I'd say it was the opposite and more like 30/70 in favour of US sellers. As a result I get far more over graded records from US sellers. I buy from 100% feedback sellers as well and it is no guarantee that they grade correctly. US sellers also tend to get far more upset when you tell them that they over graded. My experience with UK sellers was the opposite. They weren't inviting me over for dinner to say sorry but they weren't angry with me for their errors.

Interestingly I've got a 100% hit rate over the last two years from UK sellers grading accurately. In several cases they under graded.

So right now all I can say is that ebay has sellers from both countries who can't grade properly. I can also say there are sellers from both countries that are a pleasure to deal with and know how to grade.

 

What about a public blacklist on SHTV of sellers that continue to overgrade?

Verstuurd van mijn AMOI N821 met Tapatalk

 

Although I truly believe it is generally true that UK sellers over-grade their records, I have found that when any seller says NM, the record shows up in that condition. It is when you start getting into grades below NM that I have experienced difficulty. I also think that it is helpful to take the long view in these matters. So, despite my belief re: UK sellers, the fact remains that, overall, I did very well with my UK purchases and have little or no regrets at all with my transactions. I must also add that I stopped buying on ebay in about 2007/08. No regrets on that either.

 

A well balanced post and a credit to the Forum, as a result.

 

In my experience on Ebay U.K. dealers tend to grossly overrate their L.P.s. It has reached a point where I grill those dealers before bidding. Most actually refuse to use a proper Goldmine grading or commit to guaranty their grading. In those cases I walk away. In some cases I have had to give negative feedback. I am very reluctant to buy from any U.K. dealer at this point.

 

Well UK postal rates are punitive - for example the mimimum cost to ship a regular single CD in a jewel case air mail to Australia is £4.70, not including packaging, so anybody shipping you an album at £7.50 is almost certainly doing so at a loss.

Just for comparisons sake, it's a minimum of £4.50 to the US, Canada & Japan, and £3.50 to Europe...

 

Same here. Didn't anyone in the UK get the memo that you're supposed to replace your stylus when it gets worn?? Groove damage seems like it's rampant there.

 

Most UK professional dealers have no idea of hi-fi sound and if they play grade are using inferior equipment that likely masks serious audio flaws. Strangely when everyone worked from shops most vinyl was labeled ex and generally lived up to the grade -anyway you could visually check it. Ex used to be a clean playing record without serious scratches or spindle marks.

I have found Ebay standards are dropping and have recently bought records from previously reliable sources that fall well short of the grading. The best records I have obtained for reasonable money were from a couple of private collections up for sale by a relative of a deceased collector. There are actually a few semi-pro sellers who specialise in rarer quality pressings but at a fairly high asking price. Eil.com are generaly reliable for grading but you again pay a premium price. I am coming to the conclusion that a lack of good vinyl on the market is resulting in dishonesty with dealers.

Also most UK music buyers did trash their LP's and had little concept of how to look after vinyl. One reason I never lent records out to 'friends'. Most people don't get hi-fi hence the leap to Cd and later downloads. Only ever known a hand-full of people (pre forums) that maintained good systems and cared for records properly.

When reading UK grades it's best to add the word 'not' in front - e.g. not very good.

 

interestingly enough I have found most U.S. dealers to do an excellent job of grading their records. Right now I have a U.K. dealer whining about his negative feedback. Whining that I gave him only a day to respond to my message and that he offers a money back guaranty. Fact is I messaged him over a week ago and only got a response the day after he got the negative feedback. (coincidence?) I grilled him on his grading so he had every opportunity to change it. And money back guaranty means what with $30.00 shipping each way? (yeah that's right money back guaranty does not include shipping) And the dude graded the vinyl NM (supposedly play graded) and it was so bad that the noise was often as loud as the music. The tics and pops were interfering with the percussion!



Thank goodness for audiophile reissues! Seriously. No contest when it comes to noise and defects between new audiophile vinyl and vintage. Especially if we are talking vintage vinyl from UK dealers.

 

There are only a few UK dealers I've bought from who still uphold the standard that a EX record should be a very nice copy, with very few flaws. It appears that "Excellent" is simply now used as a catch-all phrase to describe any average copy of a record.

To be fair, the US equivalent, "VG+" used to be applied much more strictly by dealers using the Goldmine system. A couple older US dealers explained to me the original strict way to grade. They said that a VG+ record should never have feel-able marks, or if it does, you must prove they have no effect on play. But the dealers said that demand and competition have caused sellers to make VG+ the default minimum grade. Good luck with a US VG+ record on Ebay being all that nice these days...

 

I live in the US. My Rolling Stones, Floyd, and Beatles LP collections came from UK sellers. Other than paying over $100 for a ****e copy of Revolver, I've had good luck with UK sellers.

If the NM UK Rubber Soul is at a BIN of $45 USD, you will likely get what you pay for.

In my experience, UK sellers are no worse than US sellers. Plus, they are infinitely more polite. The UK cat who sold me The KLF's Chill Out was genuinely happy I was purchasing such a classic and assured me he was only selling it because he had a better copy.

 

if you don't mind and you have the info handy would you mind posting names and contacts for dealers you would recommend?

 

Interestingly your experience almost mirrors my recent experience with a US seller. I didn't leave any negative feedback though it didn't stop him from complaining and insinuating he was hard done by my request for a refund and I was the one who didn't know how to grade lps. He even played the lp. How he managed to miss all those deep feelable scratches that are audible is beyond me. My guess is that he played a few sections and graded the entire lp based on those few sections. No way he looked at that lp and played it and didn't notice the scratches.

Some dealers are full of ****e regardless of where they are located.

 

No doubt.

 

Sure. Here is a list of UK-based sellers that I have received properly-graded LPs from w/ quick shipping:

yorkrecordsengland
vinyaholic
oldskoolraveflyers
janis13drink
granville9628

 

In my experience, UK sellers overgrade. It is not universal, and US sellers do it too. I think part of the annoyance of UK overgrading is that I am usually buying a fairly expensive record and then paying a lot to have it sent. I am fortunate not to have had any of the bad experiences described in this thread, for the most part there's just a bit more crackle and pop than I would say is appropriate to the grade. My worst experience was with a guy who shipped a very clean copy of Queen's Sheer Heart Attack without any cardboard such that the cover (and UK covers are generally thinner than US covers), was basically wrapped around the record when it arrived. That being said, the record was in good (I mean EX+) shape and the cover probably was too before it got bent in the mail.

 

yeah you cannot trust an NM on Ebay. I have had doofuses claim stuff to be NM that is quite visibly scratched, dusty, other crap on the record, etc. It is usually people who have no clue about LPs in general though.