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Do you always toe in your main speakers?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Smurr1958, Nov 13, 2020.

  1. Roycer

    Roycer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wyoming
    25 degree toe in.Fills the room nicely.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  2. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead SUDACA ROÑOSO

    Give it a try. But if you find them bright and shouty you should think of replacing them for a more pleasant speaker. If budget is an issue, you can always eq, change crossovers, or even place a tissue in front of the horns. They are nice speakers; often brightness and shoutiness are an indication that you're playing them too loudly. Try reducing the volume just a little bit; helps a lot.
     
    slovell likes this.
  3. ashulman

    ashulman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Utica, NY
    My set up method is to start straight and toe in slightly until a center vocal has a realistic size for a human and you can detect a shape around it. As soon as this happens I stop. If the vocal still sounds amorphous and large, keep going
     
    Tone?, Ingenieur and bever70 like this.
  4. Andy Saunders

    Andy Saunders Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    In my 12' x11' room;

    ProAc Tablette 10- firing straight at the listening position. ( Have not tried them any other way.)

    Audionote ANK/LX- These fire about 18" in front of the listening position, this improved everything ( before they were firing directly at the listening position.)
     
  5. bever70

    bever70 It's all about the soundstage

    Location:
    Belgium
    This is the proper way of doing it :righton:!
     
  6. GKH

    GKH Sierra Nevada Brewery - Mills River, NC

    Location:
    Somerville, TN
    This morning listening to "Boys & Girls" (Bryan Ferry) on CD, I decided to turn my Sierra's to fire straight - no toe in.

    Room size: approximately 18' deep by 22' wide.
    Sierra Towers are about 9' apart. Center seating position from front line is about 10'. Placement from back wall; 19".
    I think this speaker placement is excellent with an even better soundstage.
    Last night, I was listening to, "The Trinity Sessions" (Cowboy Junkies) CD.
    I was sitting in my love seat off-axis to the left about 45 degrees, 9' away from my left tower. It sounded quite good. To give some idea, from that position, looking straight ahead, I was pretty much looking at the right corner of my TV, left edge of my audio rack. Very nice imaging for being that much off center.
    Something else; the subtle bass frequencies offered by "The Trinity Sessions" were quite evident. The speakers continue to amaze and impress me.
     
  7. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Forum Resident

    KEF R3
    Room 13x32
    Speakers about 3' from front wall, 4 from sides
    Seating 12 from speakers

    started straight, small incremental adjustments until satisfied. About 10 deg, very slight.

    My speakers have very wide and even dispersion, a dB or 2 loss at 20 deg.
     
    GKH likes this.
  8. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco

    Thanks man. This helped me IMMENSELY.
    My speakers are only 5’ 2” apart cause of my room and my listening distance is around 6.5’ - 7’.
    I didn’t have much toe-in but a bit too much still until this recommendation helped me.
    Was wondering why things sounded a tad bit too condensed and small.

    sounds even more wonderful now.

    thank you !
     
  9. Because of corner placement very slight movement in these speakers can substantially alter the pattern of HF and MID range coverage. The shape of room as well as where the main listening positions or “sweet spot” is makes a great difference. When positioned properly everything’s great.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  10. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    I've found that toeing in increases detail, toeing out increases sound stage.
     
  11. Surprised this hasn't been mentioned (If it was, sorry - I missed it)

    Our Host's recommendation:

    SH Spotlight - Play the Kinks "Waterloo Sunset" in stereo, check and fix or improve your stereo playback with it!

    I have yet to find the correct stereo master, but want to give it a shot.

    From the same thread:

    I've been asked again what VERSION of "Waterloo Sunset" sounds the best in the stereo mix.
    That's easy: It is "SOMETHING ELSE By The Kinks, ORIGINAL PRT Records CD issue which is PRT 8.26674, Made In Western Germany (sticker).

    Should say "Made in W. Germany" and TELDEC P 1967 & P1997 on label. With a "Digitally mastered AAD" on the left

    For all I know most of the songs on this have the same (intentional or unintentional) effect. Try DEATH OF A CLOWN, etc. to find out.

    This is the BEST SOUNDING VERSION of this album out there. Don't trust the remasterings that bump up the treble to ear-bleed level.

    This is the "flat transfer" CD that is the best.

    Find a copy, probably out there for nothing..

    The best mono version is still the UGLY PINK.
     
    bever70 likes this.
  12. radioalien

    radioalien We came in peace for all mankind

    Location:
    Washington
    Hi, I have a tried both and much prefer the speakers toed in. I find that the imaging and soundstage is much better. You can "see" where all the instruments are.
     
  13. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    It depends. With my KEF R500s, too much toe in and they sound very strange with a congested soundstage. Almost but not quite straight out, and everything snaps into place.

    I've had better luck toeing in with Wharfedales and KEF Q350s, but YMMV!
     
  14. Bananajack

    Bananajack Phorum ... wat Phorum? Where am I?

    Location:
    Singapore
    I toed in and toed out and toed in again, it’s better.
    Will try extreme toe in soon, crossing in front of me.
    Horn tweeters should not be listened directly, always 15degree off axis
     
  15. DPC

    DPC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    About 15-deg toe-in here.
    works well for me.
    used a laser level and speaker template for setup. theoretical crossover about 3-4 ft behind my head.
     
    plastico and Ingenieur like this.
  16. RiCat

    RiCat Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT, USA
    So many excellent comments. Overall this points up that the most cost effective and biggest single thing we all can do is optimize the speakers and room interactions. Adjusting the placements, adding a or removing a rug, shifting a chair or couch. I have bamboo blinds on my windows. Raising and lowering them has shown me the sweet spot for them to be set at. We listen to a system and the environment is part of it. So many are in a rush to replace when a little effort to tweak is how to go.
     
    bever70 likes this.
  17. Smurr1958

    Smurr1958 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    North Fort Myers
    Have replaced my polks with Yamaha NS-333. Bookshelf speakers. Manual recommended toe in/ triangle setup. They have a dome tweeter, but with a horn around the dome tweeter that supposedly spreads the sound.
    I very much like the more” natural sound” they produce to my ears. But because of decreased hearing in my left ear, it’s hard to tell much of a difference! Anyone have these speakers and their experience in positioning them?
    Many thanks for all the opinions on this.
     
  18. John76

    John76 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Luc.Benac likes this.
  19. ogdens_sliced

    ogdens_sliced Walnut Plug

    Location:
    Albion
    Let me get my white coat and blackboard out........ :sigh:
     
  20. muletrane

    muletrane Well-Known Member

    Location:
    NEPA
    I have KEF Q550’s and I keep them straight. I feel like the bass and imaging is better from my listening position this way.
     
  21. fish

    fish Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    mine deviate.
     
    BKphoto likes this.
  22. Smurr1958

    Smurr1958 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    North Fort Myers
    Yes these speakers sound better away from the wall. I have them about 10 inches from back wall and about 6 inches from side walls on nice stands. Deep soundstage but width does not seem much different straight or 10-15 degree toe in except maybe shrinking the width of the soundstage a bit toe in.
     
    John76 likes this.
  23. SonicCzar

    SonicCzar Well-Known Member

    Location:
    New England
    My main B&W speakers with dome tweeters point straight. In my 2.1 home theater set up with horn loaded Klipsch towers, they are towed in. Those tweeters are focused like laser beams.
     
  24. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Nope

    Location:
    Tri-Cities, Tn.
    Cornwall, in the corners slightly toed in.
     
  25. Sterling1

    Sterling1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    [​IMG] This very slight toe-in seems to present the most life like presentation of recorded music when I am centered up to the arrangement from my 12 foot speaker to listening position distance.
     

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