Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Smurr1958, Nov 13, 2020.
25 degree toe in.Fills the room nicely.
Give it a try. But if you find them bright and shouty you should think of replacing them for a more pleasant speaker. If budget is an issue, you can always eq, change crossovers, or even place a tissue in front of the horns. They are nice speakers; often brightness and shoutiness are an indication that you're playing them too loudly. Try reducing the volume just a little bit; helps a lot.
My set up method is to start straight and toe in slightly until a center vocal has a realistic size for a human and you can detect a shape around it. As soon as this happens I stop. If the vocal still sounds amorphous and large, keep going
In my 12' x11' room;
ProAc Tablette 10- firing straight at the listening position. ( Have not tried them any other way.)
Audionote ANK/LX- These fire about 18" in front of the listening position, this improved everything ( before they were firing directly at the listening position.)
This is the proper way of doing it !
This morning listening to "Boys & Girls" (Bryan Ferry) on CD, I decided to turn my Sierra's to fire straight - no toe in.
Room size: approximately 18' deep by 22' wide.
Sierra Towers are about 9' apart. Center seating position from front line is about 10'. Placement from back wall; 19".
I think this speaker placement is excellent with an even better soundstage.
Last night, I was listening to, "The Trinity Sessions" (Cowboy Junkies) CD.
I was sitting in my love seat off-axis to the left about 45 degrees, 9' away from my left tower. It sounded quite good. To give some idea, from that position, looking straight ahead, I was pretty much looking at the right corner of my TV, left edge of my audio rack. Very nice imaging for being that much off center.
Something else; the subtle bass frequencies offered by "The Trinity Sessions" were quite evident. The speakers continue to amaze and impress me.
Speakers about 3' from front wall, 4 from sides
Seating 12 from speakers
started straight, small incremental adjustments until satisfied. About 10 deg, very slight.
My speakers have very wide and even dispersion, a dB or 2 loss at 20 deg.
Thanks man. This helped me IMMENSELY.
My speakers are only 5’ 2” apart cause of my room and my listening distance is around 6.5’ - 7’.
I didn’t have much toe-in but a bit too much still until this recommendation helped me.
Was wondering why things sounded a tad bit too condensed and small.
sounds even more wonderful now.
thank you !
Because of corner placement very slight movement in these speakers can substantially alter the pattern of HF and MID range coverage. The shape of room as well as where the main listening positions or “sweet spot” is makes a great difference. When positioned properly everything’s great.
I've found that toeing in increases detail, toeing out increases sound stage.
Surprised this hasn't been mentioned (If it was, sorry - I missed it)
Our Host's recommendation:
SH Spotlight - Play the Kinks "Waterloo Sunset" in stereo, check and fix or improve your stereo playback with it!
I have yet to find the correct stereo master, but want to give it a shot.
From the same thread:
I've been asked again what VERSION of "Waterloo Sunset" sounds the best in the stereo mix.
That's easy: It is "SOMETHING ELSE By The Kinks, ORIGINAL PRT Records CD issue which is PRT 8.26674, Made In Western Germany (sticker).
Should say "Made in W. Germany" and TELDEC P 1967 & P1997 on label. With a "Digitally mastered AAD" on the left
For all I know most of the songs on this have the same (intentional or unintentional) effect. Try DEATH OF A CLOWN, etc. to find out.
This is the BEST SOUNDING VERSION of this album out there. Don't trust the remasterings that bump up the treble to ear-bleed level.
This is the "flat transfer" CD that is the best.
Find a copy, probably out there for nothing..
The best mono version is still the UGLY PINK.
Hi, I have a tried both and much prefer the speakers toed in. I find that the imaging and soundstage is much better. You can "see" where all the instruments are.
It depends. With my KEF R500s, too much toe in and they sound very strange with a congested soundstage. Almost but not quite straight out, and everything snaps into place.
I've had better luck toeing in with Wharfedales and KEF Q350s, but YMMV!
I toed in and toed out and toed in again, it’s better.
Will try extreme toe in soon, crossing in front of me.
Horn tweeters should not be listened directly, always 15degree off axis
About 15-deg toe-in here.
works well for me.
used a laser level and speaker template for setup. theoretical crossover about 3-4 ft behind my head.
So many excellent comments. Overall this points up that the most cost effective and biggest single thing we all can do is optimize the speakers and room interactions. Adjusting the placements, adding a or removing a rug, shifting a chair or couch. I have bamboo blinds on my windows. Raising and lowering them has shown me the sweet spot for them to be set at. We listen to a system and the environment is part of it. So many are in a rush to replace when a little effort to tweak is how to go.
Have replaced my polks with Yamaha NS-333. Bookshelf speakers. Manual recommended toe in/ triangle setup. They have a dome tweeter, but with a horn around the dome tweeter that supposedly spreads the sound.
I very much like the more” natural sound” they produce to my ears. But because of decreased hearing in my left ear, it’s hard to tell much of a difference! Anyone have these speakers and their experience in positioning them?
Many thanks for all the opinions on this.
Here’s a nice piece on toe-in.
I have found that getting the speakers and listening position well away from walls and toeing in my particular speakers so they cross a foot in front of my ears works best.
Let me get my white coat and blackboard out........
I have KEF Q550’s and I keep them straight. I feel like the bass and imaging is better from my listening position this way.
Yes these speakers sound better away from the wall. I have them about 10 inches from back wall and about 6 inches from side walls on nice stands. Deep soundstage but width does not seem much different straight or 10-15 degree toe in except maybe shrinking the width of the soundstage a bit toe in.
My main B&W speakers with dome tweeters point straight. In my 2.1 home theater set up with horn loaded Klipsch towers, they are towed in. Those tweeters are focused like laser beams.
Cornwall, in the corners slightly toed in.
This very slight toe-in seems to present the most life like presentation of recorded music when I am centered up to the arrangement from my 12 foot speaker to listening position distance.
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