Do You Care if CD Comes Back?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Cyclone Ranger, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    1) The generally low to ‘meh’ quality of mass market analog front ends, which is what most ppl had back then (and still kinda do today, if they’re into vinyl).

    2) The music industry and stores pushing CD in a very big way, because they knew they could double the prices overnight, compared to vinyl or cassette.

    Of course and ironically, this set up the music industry perfectly to get reamed by music piracy/illegal downloading, just a decade and change later. The greed boomeranged. :oops:

    Ah well.
    .
     
  2. Gaslight

    Gaslight Kokomo or My Ding-a-Ling : Shoulda been a poll

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Agreed and I certainly hope I'm wrong about this.
     
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  3. Gaslight

    Gaslight Kokomo or My Ding-a-Ling : Shoulda been a poll

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Unfortunately it's not bull. I wish it were...would save me a lot of money.

    I'm talking about modern releases in the last few years, btw. Stuff that's new, not a reissue and not just classic rock icons. I actually have to do some clip-fix and re-EQ'ing to make a modern CD sounds like the vinyl release, to the point where I actually leverage this option if the vinyl release is 1) astronomically priced or 2) simply doesn't exist.
     
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  4. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Not everyone, but certainly the market in general chose CD, eventually.

    However, I don’t believe it was a preference based on pure sound quality. Most music listeners were not really caring for vinyl records properly or playing them with great equipment. If all your records had crackles and pops and played with just OK resolution using cheap gear, then a format came along that sounded crackle- and pop-free without any cleaning, that would likely sound better to you. I have read plenty of people’s accounts of having had good analog equipment and clean records who did not prefer CD when it came along. For general consumption, convenience along with “good enough” sound quality tends to win, not necessarily sound quality alone.
     
  5. Platterpus

    Platterpus Forum Resident

    Location:
    MPLS
    I do care if CDs come back. But they are not totally gone and never will be. They're in a manufacturing lull do to the thriving vinyl resurgence that's been going on for the last few years and has pumped more money into the industry during that time. I think the vinyl craze reached it's peak last year and has diminished slowly since then except for around RSD and Black Friday. Many labels in Europe and the UK have been starting to reissue CDs again. Even Japan. US record labels mostly are taking advantage of the current window of opportunity to keep pressing vinyl until people get sick of it and decide they want to pay less for their music on CD rather than pay premium prices for modern vinyl that has some playback limitations due to the format itself and pressing quality problems. CDs don't really have these limitations if mastered properly.
     
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  6. Gaslight

    Gaslight Kokomo or My Ding-a-Ling : Shoulda been a poll

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    I don't think a CD sales lull is related to the vinyl resurgence, in any significant way.

    If you want to focus on a reason, it's fairly simple - the first blow came from the Internet and the rise of services like the original Napster. And the second blow was due to the rise of streaming services. Vinyl still hasn't matched unit sales for CD's yet, they are only closing in on sales numbers.

    If vinyl sales suddenly tank, people aren't going to go back to CD's again. That ship has sailed already.
     
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  7. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    I don’t think vinyl is most of what’s brought CD down... downloads and streaming (especially) are.

    And vinyl hasn’t ‘peaked’... the RIAA sales figures for first-half of 2019 just came out, and vinyl is up 13 percent year-over-year.

    So, I think streaming is going to have to trip over its own feet in order for CD to make any kind of major comeback anytime soon.
    .
     
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  8. Platterpus

    Platterpus Forum Resident

    Location:
    MPLS
    Well, I totally agree that the internet and people uploading everything to the web music wise was a great blow to physical media. But even during the 2000s and especially in the last few years I have never seen so much used CDs dumped at music stores, thrift shops, Goodwill's and online stores like eBay and Amazon. And many online retailers selling CDs for a fraction of what they used to sell for. Many stores here in MPLS have a fairly large section for CDs. These are your local/independent record stores mostly. Forget about Target, Walmart and their music departments. They never were really good even to begin with. Some people are still holding on to their music CDs for the most part and some are just sharing it all over the internet like fools. Then about five years ago or even a little longer this purge of CDs started and you could find tons of CDs used everywhere and even some sealed for cheap. The online stores like eBay and Amazon followed suit and people were basically giving their music away since it was being sold so cheap elsewhere. RSD and the vinyl craze at first did not catch on with mass appeal. It needed a little help from the media and word of mouth. This hype got increasingly more prevalent during this time so I think some if many people panicked and wanted to get rid of their CDs as quick as possible to at least make a little money from them. It's sort dying a little over the last year and the various online music stores have actually raised prices on CDs as well.

    As far as streaming, I think at some time due to it's controversy in not paying artists their share is going to catch up with them and I would not be surprised if some of these services are penalized or shut down. There are a lot of angry musicians out there that are being taken advantage of monetarily and it will only be time when the artists and their management will say enough is enough.

    Plus many people especially audiophiles are concerned about who is mastering their music and what mastering are these online services using? If you pay and can only stream music through a device and not actually download it like any other purchase then what is the incentive? Music, listening and the hobby that it entails is still very appealing to many people. I just consider streaming to be artificial and a cheap way for the industry to take out money and put very little back in.

    Plus I have read and heard here that digital downloads and streaming services have the same mastering, loudness, and compression issues that some CDs have had but no one really questions this. My Brother has a streaming service account (one of the big name ones) and he likes it for the convenience but he has noted and told me about playback issues and problems with the service as well.

    Personally, I don't think any of the physical media as far as CDs or even vinyl is going to stop any time soon. Like I said there are reissue labels in the UK, Europe and Japan and maybe elsewhere that are upping their production again and reissuing CDs even though vinyl is still strong and streaming is tops.

    There are kids born this decade and even last decade that probably have mostly if only been exposed to music from digital downloads and streaming. They well may never have even used a CD player let alone a turntable. Kids are getting more into nostalgia and some are getting fed up with hand held devices to play their music when they look back at the technology for the last 35 years and maybe appreciate the CD format again. I know it doesn't help that most optical disc players sold in retail are only DVD players and not dedicated CD players that are hard to find anywhere in retail unless you order one online from a specialty shop who still thinks it's worth it to sell them despite their higher price due to supply and demand and more specialized manufactures that are making them so the cost is up for even a basic entry level CD player.

    As far as I'm concerned, the only people who are not really bothered by the streaming services are the well established artists that have been around since at least the 1980s or prior and have continued to do good sales wise with the help from their constant touring and merchandise sales. These artists usually have good label support and management and have made a name for themselves for decades and kept themselves in the public eye and not resting on their laurels like some bands have and they lose their audience. The small percentage of newer artists of today that are very successful and like wise don't really care about the affect of streaming on their music sales. Established artists old and new basically see it as free promotion to keep their music and name out there and if they make physical sales as a result then they don't worry to much. But the artists that are wet behind the ears that are trying to make a living on their music is finding it very difficult. So they tour hard and try to promote themselves through social media and other outlets in hopes of getting their name out there and people to buy their music.

    No one really knows what will happen as far as the music industry, physical media and the streaming services will be in the future but some things have changed, at least outside the USA CD wise. Things can and do change. They have in the past. It's like a never ending cycle.
     
  9. Tom H

    Tom H Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kapolei, Hawaii
    When I got out of vinyl in the late 80's it was for good. I have no ill will.

    Today, I still collect CDs. I think it's a great time for CD collectors. I also stream music (mainly to help me decide if I wanna buy the CD). And I also purchase digital downloads (when no CD is available or I don't think I need it).

    So I guess my answer is I hope CD's do make a resurgence. I think it's the best format for listening to music.
     
  10. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Where's the "I am totally over these endless discussions about the demise of CDs" option?
     
  11. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    I think it’s called ‘not participating in the thread’. :sigh:
    .
     
  12. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    I hope CD will come back. I don't care for downloads, not even hi-res. I want physical media with printed booklets.
     
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  13. Bedlam Inside

    Bedlam Inside New Member

    Location:
    United States
    Hi there. As a person with loads and I mean loads of CDs, I should be voting for them to come back with a vengence BUT everything moves on and changes. I reckon we all have our favourite formats - be it vinyl or whatever. This is our 'choice, our favourite. BUT in all honesty, we need to move with the times as well. Yep streaming is controversial but it's here and for many it's convenient - some streaming options are better than others, just like some formats. And if it gets people into music, that's great. They can then move and learn about the other stuff but the best thing is just to enjoy it all, surely?
     
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  14. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Fair enough - but surely I'm not the only person tired of seeing basically the same thread topic keep popping up. Do people even do a quick search of the last couple of months' posts before starting a thread? Apparently not.
     
  15. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    Best Buy's announcement that it was eliminating CD sales from most of its stores came last year, not years ago. Target's announcement that it was going to pay on a consignment basis came last year as well. And the numbers shows up in the RIAA figures which showed one-year like 48% declines in net shipments, mostly do to high levels of returns.

    If that many people were still buying CDs, it would show up in the numbers. CDs decline seems to have stabilized this year, but we're talking about CD down from a high of 1.2 billion units in the US 20 years ago to 50 million or fewer units. It's a very, very steep decline.
    .
    I have thousands and thousands of LPs and CDs too. I don't know why you "should" pay for a streaming service. I'll tell you why I do -- first, zero incremental cost to listen to more new, different and new to me music. I need to constantly here new and different music and I can get it instantly, at no increase in cost, and without having to buy and hold something that I may listen to once or twice, or once every couple of years. Second, convenience -- it's so easy to listen to whatever kind of music I want to listen to in my car without having to schlep hardcopy around; and for occasional casual listening in my living room or kitchen I can connect so easily to my Riva wifi speakers and play pretty much anything with no fuss, no mess. When new stuff comes out I rarely buy it now, and I much prefer not spending that more incremental money with each new release, or having to hold more stuff in a closet or on a shelf. I didn't much care for streaming when only low bit rate, lossy streams were available, but now that 16/44.1 FLAC streaming is easily available, I find I love it. For me it's mostly about hearing new and different music. Since I've gone more heavily into streaming I've listened to more new (newly made and new to me) and different music than I have in years.
     
  16. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    I would have thought so, but I'm not sure. The labels haven't shown much of an inclination to start their own platforms, and the way people get paid out on streaming is basically on volume, and so to achieve a high volume of streams you really would want to have your material everywhere. What I'm surprised about is that the platforms haven't tried to do more exclusive, original content. That's really been the driver for the likes of Netflix and Amazon Prime -- streaming reruns or last year's movies is a bit of a commodity, but Stranger Things and the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, people will subscribe for that stuff.
     
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  17. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    This thread is 2 1/2 months old. Can’t speak to the others.
    .
     
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  18. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york city
    Will never happen.

    The people who are responsible for streaming now being the #1 delivery system for music no longer possess CD players, and got rid of their CDs years ago.

    For all intents and purposes, the CD is permanently finished.

    If streaming prices go up, people will pay it.
     
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  19. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    You'll see the problem with that sentence if you replace the word "CD" with "vinyl", and replace "streaming" with "CD".
     
  20. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york city
    It's not a problem, because those are different things subject to different circumstances.
     
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  21. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Beautiful avatar.
     
  22. nosliw

    nosliw Azunyan! にゃーーー!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Strongly disagree.

    A lot of the music I listen to, spanning many genres, suffer from dynamically compressed and brickwalled on CD/digital formats. Provided that a dedicated, proper master from the original mixes was used for the LP format, I would buy them in a heartbeat. And 99% of the time, the non-compressed masters will never be released to the public on CD/digital formats. Unfortunately, it is what it is.

    I would not dismiss vinyl records so cavalierly and this is coming from someone who streams and buy CDs.
     
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  23. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    What's this "red book" thingy?
     
  24. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york city
    :)

    Thanks.

    Seriously, though, the extent of the "vinyl revival" is 1) still pretty small, in the overall big picture, and 2) competing physical formats aren't the issue any more, because the shift from physical to streaming is a paradigm shift, not merely a preference for a format.

    There's going to be plenty of physical media for us ("us" meaning the minority of music listeners who still buy it) to buy for years to come, but that doesn't change the reality of the market. CDs, in particular, are never coming back because they were designed primarily for convenience, but based on the now-obsolete state of the marketplace and technology of the mid 1980s. In 2019, they no longer offer much in the way of convenience; in fact, they would represent an untenable inconvenience to pretty much anybody under 35 (and plenty of people over that number), which represents the majority of the market for contemporary music.
     
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  25. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    Oh that. It’s pr0n.
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