Do you have the patience to order hardware?

Since when did it become common practice for dealers to not stock any of the hardware on the salesfloor? I understand that a small business can't afford to carry the ultra-high end $10,000+ components in stock, but not a $700 cd player?

I usually don't go looking unless I have done my homework and intend to buy. Nothing upsets me more than spending over an hour auditioning and getting the sales pitch, only to reach for my wallet and be told "We don't acutally stock any of these products, but it will only take 8 to 14 days". This has happened several times lately on items than retail for less than $1000. I'm not talking about a special order couch, refrigerator, or Cadillac here, just a $700 cd player. I can go to about 10 different stores in town, give them $10,000 and take home a 50 plasma tv today ( I still have about an hour if I hurry ). Needless to say, I haven't bought anything yet. I can be just as patient as anyone else, if I know I have to wait upfront. I thought you used to actually have stock on hand to be considered a dealer? I'm curious if having to wait has ever made a difference in your decisions towards hardware purchases?

 

I used to work at a specialty A/V retailer. I can understand both sides. Having at least one of every model on display or offered in a manufacturers' line was great for our reputation and customer satisfaction. However, most retailers will tell you, $700 CD players don't move at the volume that they can afford to keep one on-hand at all times. A $700 DVD player, well, that's another story...

I can sympathize with you, certainly. Most of my more expensive A/V purchases over the past few years have involved some sort of waiting, so now I just come to expect it.

 

I do my homework and know exactly what I want to buy when I go in for it.

I am too impatient to order anything unless there is absoloutley no other way to get it. I'm old fashioned in that I like to go to a store.

And I used to be such a patient guy!

 

How do you know? Have you already done your auditioning elsewhere?

 

Yup! I don't like to put up with a dealer's BS. Just gimme what I came for! That's the way I shop for almost anything. I do extensive homework first, decide what I want, and go buy it. Simple as that. I learned this behavior from my mother. She liked to do her homework and buy what she wanted. My wife is the same way, no BS shopping!

 

Different manufactures have different "dealer" programs. The bottom line is that for most products/maufactures, having stock other then the display unit and sometimes not even then, is not a requirement.

 

Well, you'd be no fun to go shopping with.

What about when you have to buy a new outfit or shoes and you really have no idea, and you just go in and try on a bunch of things and let the sales assistant guide you and make suggestions. They may know more than you think. I personally love doing that!

 

Heh! I do like shopping, but on MY terms! I guess I am no fun. I do like to browse through the CD and LP bins, though. I used to literally spend hours going through a store's inventory. But, it got to the point to where I knew a store's inventory better than they did!

I don't like to shop for clothes. Never did. That was actually the ONLY type of thing my mother didn't rush through. When I go clothes shopping, I have a good idea of what I want. If I don't see anything i'm looking for. I just go somewhere else. So, still, I usually have a set idea of what I want beforehand.

I don't have high-end money, so I can't shop for high-end audio gear by listening to endless demos. I have the time. I even have the patience. I just like to do the homework for a couple of months, or so, compare prices, and then just go out and buy it. I guess I just don't trust sales people. I grew up in a house full of women who don't trust anyone, either!

Now, if I do make a bad choice in a purchase, I can't blame the sales person. I can only blame myself.

 

It doesn't matter if I know what I want or if I spend the afternoon listening and deciding. Invariably when I reach for my wallet, the shop doesn't have what I want in stock. Almost without fail this happens every single time. Usually they can get it in pretty quick but it means having to come back, which is a drag. I've just learned to expect this so it isn't TOO dissapointing when it happens, but still...

 

A lot of us, even if it's not about audio, have to depend on the web and lots of other things to get what you want. Sometimes even auditioning means having to order it 1st, but auditioning anything in a store really means nothing until you take it home and listen to it on something you are familiar with already.

Not all of us have perfectly square rooms or even ceilings. I trust a lot of people here (and elsewhere) and I've been rarely ever let down.

Your own experience means everything. Salesmen and showroom means little.

 

Scott,

While I understand where you're coming from, there can be tangible benefits to going to the store and talking with a salesperson and seeing/using/listening to a product. The internet can't tell you how the buttons work, how it looks in sunlight, how the user interface works, etc.

Plus, the salesperson is often there to help you out in other ways. Let's say you got your mind made up on a product because of online reviews. You go to see it, and the salesperson has it along with something similiar, and maybe better for your situation. You get to listen/feel/touch/compare them both. The salesperson should recommend other options in your price range and give you pros and cons of both. Then you can make a decision based on your preference after experiencing products you may not have considered by just shopping online. Trust me, a good salesperson will want you to be satisfied with your purchase and do what it takes to make sure the product is the best fit for your needs. There's nothing more frustrating for a salesperson than to spend hours and hours on a Saturday afternoon showing someone the latest A/V product only to have the guy return it the following week because it didn't fit his needs.

 

Luckily I live in an area where there numerous mid to high-end audio shops. I've developed a good relationship with a few of them. I am willing to pay a premium to get individual attention, and more importantly, gain access to stellar service. A decent shop will seek to establish a long-term relationship with you as a client. The benefits of such a relationshiop cannot be overstated. I know some folks don't have access to such a luxury and sometimes the internet is the only convenient option. I will usually do research on the 'net and then go to the shop to audition. Most recently I bought a new DVD-A player, and being able to audition the player to make sure it played my handful of "problem child" DVD-A discs was very comforting.

Also, if you have a good relationship with a shop, they will usually let you take demo gear home so that you can properly audition it in your own room with your own equipment. I've taken advantage of this on more than one occassion. In most cases, it helped clinch the deal, in others, it saved me from making a costly mistake.

 

There's no doubt that when I was in my local retailer looking for a clothes drier, a lot of valid points were important to discuss with a salesperson. Warranty was a big factor.

In audio, I have to say however, the last two units I've purchased (Solid state) were informed purchases from Internet discussion and furious price shopping. In 4 places I shopped in (the SCD 775 was becoming a rare unit at the time) no one knew what SACD was. Only one person in Tweeter, Etc did, and the whole chain didn't have the unit. They were all "sent back to warehouse" before I got there.

The Rotel 965 is still a dream for me. Send it analog or digital, and it can set things up quickly and automatically plus the Universal remote is the same "universal" one Marantz sells seperately. It sounds wonderful, and I've certainly overwhelmed it with so much "stuff". One of the best preamps next to many Adcoms I've heard. I was able to buy it in new condition for a 2nd hand price.

True, a salesperson is important to some people, but in my heart I believe if you know what you're shopping for, the salesman means little. I don't think I'll ever go for average-grade consumer electronics for serious use. Because of the Internet, price and comparitive shopping for me is a no-brainer.

The more informed, the more effort, the better served. Some might say salesman, I say DIY.

MHO.

 

The term "salesperson" is not correct in this context, I believe. When I think salesperson, I think of the guy at Best Buy working on commission who knows next to nothing about the product, doesn't know you from Adam, and is only concerned with pushing product and then moving on to the next customer.

I don't deal with salespeople. I have no need for them. In this context, I would use the term consultant or associate. This infers a higher level of service and care for you as a long-term client as opposed to a one-time customer.

 

Vex: very good points. If you are considering something above mass-makert (Rotel 965 is obvious example), then a sales consultant is probably there to build a long term relationship with you. No "sales pressure" needed. My store carried the complete Rotel line. I can't even tell you how many people came in with their minds made up to get the latest Denon receiver AVR-3801/3802/3803 which we carried, but ended up leaving with a Rotel receiver or separates. Did we give them a "nudge" or recommend Rotel or similar product? Sure. Because it's usually in their best interest, sound and value-wise. Plus, dozens of these people would hand-deliver a friend or neighbor to me to show them Rotel products.

Scott, we would think sometimes that everyone has taken the time to explore products on the internet. The reality is those types of people are in the minority. And when they do come in with their mind made up, they are often mis-informed about basic concepts like 5.1/HDTV/SACD/fill-in-the-blank. I'm not talking about about you here, man

Take any product category and I can relate an example of the typical customer. There are always exceptions to the rule, but most of the time someone takes the time to walk-in to a high end A/V retailer, they expect to be educated, shown product and given alternatives. It was our unspoken goal to know every customer by name, in the hopes of delivering good service and long-term relationships. There is no joy in selling a mass-market receiver/DVD player that's barely a step above what you find at Best Buy. You want to start them slowly into a product line like Rotel and have them appreciate the quality and service as well as building their gear in a steady manner.

Also, as educated as many people are about the purchase they are considering, I have spent hours on the phone with customers and in their homes instructing them how to set-up & configure their gear based on my experience with it. Identifying little quirks and problem solving is how a "sales consultant" earns their keep best.

 

Then why bother opening a store that specializes in audio gear? I don't expect them to stock every model the manufacturer produces. I do however think it is very misleading to advertise that you are the "Brand X" exclusive dealer and not have ANY items in stock, ever. Brick and mortar dealers are very valuable to me. I like to see, hear, and touch the product first. I will pay more for that service as well as the knowledge and help from the staff/owner. I don't however think a $500 to $700 retail priced item should be that big of a burden to carry. They probably would sell twice as many just by having them available. Just tell me upfront that we have to order one, thats all.

 

True, if it's a moderate-to-high volume mover. Let's say you want Rotel's RCD-1072 CD player, retail $700. If you are a medium size Rotel dealer, you may sell two a year. Seriously. Even if it's on display. Most people looking to spend that much on a disc spinner are considering a multi-format player. If you take the RDV-1050 for the same price (DVD-A/V), a good dealer can move at least one, maybe more, a month. It makes sense for a dealer to keep 3-4 on hand at any given time.

So back to that CD player that maybe you can go through once a year. All retailers have to pay quarterly inventory taxes on what they have on hand. If they keep one in stock for a year that doesn't sell, they've effectively paid away all their profit in inventory taxes and overhead.

Basically, I agree with everyone's thoughts here. But please, factor this in when are upset that a dealer doesn't stock something:

1) How often would a product like this really move? Sure $10,000 plasmas are in stock because someone buys one every week! Fact.

2) What is the order lead time? Using our Rotel CD player example, a good dealer could have one in your hands in two-weeks time. Doesn't seem like that long to wait, right?

 

Getting back to the original topic, I waited 10 weeks for my EAR preamp to arrive, after 6 weeks I started to lose patience, but it was worth the wait.

 

I'm pretty used to waiting so it does not bother me.

I recently went to The Analog Room to see if they had a Bright Star Audio Air Mass 3 I could look at. They are the local dealer. They have a lot of stuff, but they did not have anything from Bright Star.

I ordered what I wanted, paid half up front, and went home. Two weeks later I paid the other half and picked it up. The reason it was not in stock was that it was not even made.

I had chatted to Barry Kohan of Bright Star and he told me they were just making a new batch of the Air Mass 3 Reference and that the compound takes over a week to cure, so my timing was good. Order, pay, wait - no problem.

A couple of years back I ordered modifications to a Sony XA777ES and they took 18 months to complete. If you want esoteric stuff you often have to wait.

But I can be impulsive too - and that only works when the item is in stock. I bought one of the Sony 333ES players three years ago from Best Buy. It was a demo unit - no box - for $300. If it had not been on the floor and available for me to take with me, I would not have bought it.

So I guess have two standards. The mass market gear must be in stock or I'll probably not buy it on impulse. The planned purchases I don't mind waiting for at all.

 

Whoa. I realize you had some SERIOUS mods done to your XA777ES, but that sounds excessive to me.

 

Things took a while to get started, so I have to be fair. Maybe 12 months. There is a lot of proprietary circuitry in my machine though. And we had to take a step back when we could not get the noise level down low enough when the 6 DACs (in stereo) were cascaded.

It tested even my patience - and when it comes to hifi, I am like Job.

Look at those who have had the Meitner DACs and have been waiting for the new transport - it was at CES in Jan and is just now shipping in small quantities. Some of those users saw their modified Philips SACD1000s as ticking time bombs - and some where right; and the SACD1000 stopped working. Now there's a $12,000 SACD player that's just taking up space.

Like I say, you have to be patient - and have some other gear in the closet for emergencies.

 

I miss the stores we used to have locally: Absolute Sound. That was one dealer I really enjoyed going to, and got friendly with the one salesperson...er, consultant...who eventually became store manager. He wouldn't even stick around--"here, just go into this room, listen for awhile, and let me know when you're done, or if you have any questions." Practically a no-pressure sale, letting the customer get comfortable with the equipment, getting acclimated to the sound.

The "big box" stores seem more pleased to try to make you buy horribly overpriced accessories (since they make little on the actual equipment), and then cram an extended warranty onto your bill, than they do about making sure you're satisfied. I try to buy everything online these days if I can, but if it is something serious like a speaker system or a monitor (TV), I'll spend plenty of time in there looking and listening to make sure it's what I like.

And veering back on topic, once I've made my choice, I'd fully expect them to have the item in stock or, at the very least, have it available from their own central warehouse, or a distributor warehouse, within a couple of days. One thing I learned in almost 20 years of distribution (it was industrial distribution, but this figure applies to all industries): carrying inventory costs money. Carrying an item in inventory for one month will cost a company 1% to 1.5% of that item's cost each month. If markups are slim, they'd lose money after a few months of non-moving inventory. At my last job, our inventory/purchasing manager had things really finely tuned in terms of inventory, and we also had a good lineup of suppliers who could get us product within a day or two by UPS ground delivery if we didn't have the part in stock.

The problem today is that customers have come to expect to buy products for rock-bottom prices, and for businesses, the cost of doing business has increased. And one thing that has taken a hit is that personalized "consultant" salesmanship. But hey, what business hasn't been affected by the "big box" domination these days? Heck, we can't even find many mom and pop office supply stores around here anymore!

 

Truer words have never been spoken. This statement explains why I am no longer in the industry that I love. When Ultimate Electronics opened 6 Dallas-area stores in one month.....you know the rest.

Geoff, indeed you are a patient man! I too wait to hear about the performance and reliability of those Meitner transports.

 

I'd liked to have gotten into it myself. It's hard to find an industry NOT prone to big-box-store-itis. Even car dealerships.

 

(off-topic alert)

Rudy, when it was good, it was good. 1999-2001 was really a great time in the high end A/V industry. Great money to be made, willing consumers with money to burn, no big box retailers trying to get in the game.