SH Spotlight Do you want to hear two amazing RCA-Victor 78s from 1932? Ted Weems, Isham Jones..

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Oct 9, 2010.

  1. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    I have a clean copy of that 12" 78! I don't think I've gotten around to giving it a spin; I must rectify that!
     
  2. Hamhead

    Hamhead Sinatra promo specialist

    I have the Okeh Ellington set that has a few tracks on Harmony from the late 20's when Irving Mills was having Ellington record for many labels under different sudonyms to rake up on the publishing which Mills owned.

    This date was recorded acoustically

    January 9, 1928. New York.
    The Washingtonians: Louis Metcalf, Bubber Miley, t; Joe Nanton, tb; Barney Bigard, cl, ts; Otto Hardwick, as, cl, ss, bs, bsx; Harry Carney, bs, cl, ss, as; Duke Ellington, p; Fred Guy, bj; Wellman Braud, b; Sonny Greer, d.

    145488-3 Harmony 577H M3:13 C27-28:14 Sweet Mama, Papa's Getting Mad
    145489-3 Harmony 601H M3:14 C27-28:15 Stack O'Lee Blues
    145490-3 Harmony 577H M3:15 C27-28:16 Bugle Call Rag
     
  3. Hamhead

    Hamhead Sinatra promo specialist

    Not the two Ellington medleys from 1932.
     
  4. O Don Piano

    O Don Piano Forum Resident

    Incredible sound!!

    I noticed that "Look Who's Here" has a running time of 2:24. That's the same running time of "I Want To Hold Your Hand"! It seems so much longer as a result of the dynamic changes in the arrangement! Most records made until the mid-50s seem a lot longer than they are.

    Oops- I referenced you-know-who in this thread. So sue me.
     
  5. Perisphere

    Perisphere Forum Resident

    And the electric matrices do not have the W in the dead wax to denote they're electric as the Columbia matrices do. You have to play them to determine which is which.

    The last acoustic matrix is 150528-1 recorded 23 May 1930; it's 'There's a wah-wah gal in Agua Caliente' played by what was billed as the Golden Gate Orchestra (a pseudonym for the California Ramblers). Vocal billed as Jim Andrews, actually Arthur Fields.

    Here it is, on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj2unf_xIEk
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    I'm still amazed at the wonderful sound of this Ted Weems record from 1932 as mentioned in my original first post.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aTA2Z9HD_k&feature=related

    Even on my laptop, the sound is so transparent, it's like a time machine into the past. Spooky real.. A little disconcerting, actually. It could be the best sounding 78 from the 1930's I've ever heard. Not musically but recordingly..:)

    The only thing I've ever heard sound as good or better are those dance band recordings made on tape in Nazi Germany in the later 1930's. Those are creepy real sounding as well.
     
  7. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    No, but at least the initial flurry of issues are heavily drawn on already recorded electric 78 sides dating from back into the 1920's. Just 3-4 minute sides all strung together. Edison did that too, when trying to launch his long player in 1927. In both cases, it would have not been good for the fidelity.

    That's true. But unless one is dead set against listening to acoustic recordings, those Harmony acoustics sound quite good, relatively speaking. Lots of 'presence' and quiet record surfaces. Perhaps not as good as Okeh acoustics, not far off either.
     
  8. Hamhead

    Hamhead Sinatra promo specialist

    You know the story of those 2 Victor Ellington 33s from 1932. Victor ran 2 cutters with 2 independent mikes, one of the masters was for the US and the other for Europe. If you synch them together, it's true stereo. One mike was on stage left, the other stage right.
     
  9. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    I know about the two cutters. But I thought that they were just testing two different recording setups. Trying to determine which was best.
     
  10. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    By the way, I notice in the comment section of that video, Prozoot claims 1928 as the first Harmony electric. My pipe organ solo of Blue Danube Waltz played by John Hassell, on Harmony, is electrical. Recorded in 1927, according to the Online Discographical Project.
     
  11. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ CMO (Chief Musical Officer)

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    There Is An LP Of The Resulting Stereo

    There is an LP of the recorded music resulting from that recording session in stereo.
     
  12. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Always wanted one. About how much does one sell for on ebay? never seen one, maybe I'll post a WTB in the classifieds
     
  13. Hamhead

    Hamhead Sinatra promo specialist

    I have it, it's on the "Everybodys" label,
    it's one of those Jack Towers projects.

    The medleys (in stereo) are also on the Ellington Centenial box with the WORST remastering known to mankind. If you like your music with noise reduction so high off the charts that you hear high pitched ringing, this is right up your alley.
     
  14. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    I had tried the sampler disc from that set and stopped there. Terrible sound.
     
  15. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    There's a weensy bit of stereo widening effect on that. Though collapsed to mono, it still sounds excellent.
     
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

  17. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Any idea why there's so much more surface "hiss"? The noise level on this sounds a lot more similar to that on the new Robert Johnson set.
     
  18. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ CMO (Chief Musical Officer)

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    The LP Isn't That Bad, As I Recall


    I thought the LP want that bad, considering the age of the material.
     
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Well, the guy is transcribing off of RIAA for one thing which accentuates the top end "hiss" but reproduces the presence of the original correctly. A trade off. The old horn wouldn't reproduce like that. Not quite the right stylus tip is the other thing.
     
  20. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I just meant in comparison to the original videos that were posted, which were done by the same guy. Presumably his setup was the same; those were much quieter.
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Different studio & different cutting stylus configuration. Different presses, different wax compound, shellac, etc. Remember, no one could hear any differences back in 1932. The playback gear was extremely limited.
     
  22. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI


    So it's more or less a crap shoot when it comes to these things?
     
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    On modern gear and off of RIAA, yes.

    Put on RIAA, use correct playback tip and add 3db at 3k and things start to look up.
     
  24. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    It seemed to me like it was 'off RIAA' too.

    Assuming that, I think there would be even more top end than you hear in the final result, so he had to tailor the top end somewhat, that is, use some EQ to bring it down. The degree of that which he used, along with the things already mentioned (record compound etc.) would produce variable end results regarding noise.
     
  25. Mickey2

    Mickey2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bronx, NY, USA
    Interesting how the vocals take a backseat in these two recordings (and at that time). You could call them "vocal breaks" whereas these days instrumental breaks are more the secondary consideration (if considered at all). The vocals begin at almost the halfway point in each.
     

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