SH Spotlight Do you want to hear two amazing RCA-Victor 78s from 1932? Ted Weems, Isham Jones..

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Oct 9, 2010.

  1. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    :righton:

    Another YouTube channel with fairly clean, decent transfers...

    Under The Moon It's You - Bert Lown / Hotel Biltmore Orchestra (1930.)
     
  2. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Ah, I think i understand now. I know a pallophotophone was recently rebuilt and played back some tests from the edison labs, but if old music masters existed on this format, they would probably make for some stellar reissues! alas, it was not to be... Anyhow, Rainbow/Sonny Boy are two of my most treasured 78 sides, two of my fave songs of all time.
    Just listen to one of his Victor sides from 1913 to get a good idea of how far the tech progressed in just 15 years! The sound on that 1928 side is really great, and I didnt even know it till I heard the disc firsthand, and not from a cd transfer.
     
  3. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I can't remember if I posted these in this 78 thread or another, but here are my contributions:

    E Lucevan le Stelle (Tosca-Puccini)
    Enrico Caruso

    This is pressed from an acoustic redubbing of the original to create a new "master". Still, with Caruso's phonogenic voice, even this don't sound too shabby. I'm sure an original (pre-1915) would blow this one out of the water tho, on any given day.
    http://youtu.be/eKcPKVwEny0?hd=1

    V-Disc No. 683
    Johnny Bothwell, Claude Thornhill, Benny Goodman
    This is a 1940's vinyl pressing! However, don't expect less noise on this one - it's been to war and back, manhandled by our WWII soldiers in their free time. Probably took a few shells every now and then too. It ain't in pretty condition (multiple scratches, gouges, pits. The video wasnt shot in HD, you're welcome.) I used some of my own noise reducing techniques, but no noise reduction in the tradtional sense, besides some clickrepair.
    Listen to how great the sound is on the side that actually was recorded for the v-disc label, and then the atrocious dubbings on the flip :laugh:
    Great to collect if you want some recordings from the US recording strike, or just wanna stick it to the man and "own" some govt. property :D
    http://youtu.be/xX0HU-N8Wf0

    Bill Haley
    "(We're Gonna) Rock Around The Clock"

    A common 78, by any means, but gosh does it sound great. I can just imagine in my head the day they cut this from that b-wind ampex 200. The sound on this just smokes. I checked the waveform, and while it wasnt overloading my pc soundcard, I'm pretty sure just the turntables A/D converter was overloaded from the get go. Either that, or this record has some of the heaviest compression i've ever seen. You thought brickwalling was bad in 2011? This looked worse than the iggy pop remixes! literally just a solid brick wall forf a waveform. At least this one sounds great tho, incredibly quiet shellac and nice punchy sound.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXe_c0fxFss


    Funny to see how much my system has changed since then. I'm off of school now for the summer, maybe I'll spend a lazy monday transferring more 78's from my collection. Very tempting....:righton: I've also been meaning to catalog them for some while now. Maybe I'll do that and then take requests here!
     
  4. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    That dubbing doesn't have an S/8 in the land area does it? That's usually how you can tell one of those. Got swindled out of my 50 cents over it, with that record:shake: It's not a terrible dub as those go, some are worse. I try to avoid them whatever the cos

    Your transfer doesn't sound too bad, but I'd slow the turntable down a bit. That record should play at 74-75 rpm.

    None of my V-Discs are that quiet either. Even with clean looking undamaged surfaces. The vinyl they used may be intrinsically that way? Lots of ticks n' pops.


    Yes, it's loud.
     
  5. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC USA
    Thanks for the link Steve, but the second one didn't come through on my comupter. I did love the Weems track and found the sound to be extraordinary.
     
  6. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    The electric side of that record has grooves too wide for the stylus being used on it. You can hear the swishy skating noise, and audible mistracking. Could have sounded better. The acoustic side is actually better in that regard. Narrower grooves a better match for that stylus size.

    Some of your 1920's electrics see the grooves widen up considerably again. I guess a consequence of trying to cut so much more sonic information.
     
  7. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    The v-disc was that way after a deep glue cleaning and various digital methdods were employed. I'm sure a minty fresh v-disc would sound hissy at best. But not anywhere near that noisy.
    How did one compensate for different groove widths back in the day?
     
  8. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    The surfaces of some of my vinyl V-Discs have little bumps and dimples in places, that I don't think were the result of handling, I consider them a bit 'rougher' for vinyl pressings than I would expect from a vinyl LP or even a later vinyl 78 pressing. Some noise aside, I have no complaints, the sound can be quite nice.

    Some of the early V-Discs were shellac as you may know. The shellac was abandoned owing to it's high breakage rate. What made up the total compound of vinyl V-Discs could be who knows what.


    One didn't compensate for different groove widths.:D You just plunked a steel needle in the groove and that was it. The steel needles had very wide tips, and even if not, you wouldn't have heard anything amiss on the old players. Special stylus considerations came in when playing Edison or Pathe records. Not your regular ol' lateral cut 78's.

    I don't know about later electrical players of the 30's and 40's. But again, with generally limited fidelity, no one worried about those kinds of things.
     
  9. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    Forgot to drop the link to this channel...

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU5KLv3XCF8

    A jewel of a clarinet solo on that Bert Lown record. Really nice.
     
  10. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    Here's an early Victor electric recorded a month after electrical recording began in the studios Camden....

    Let It Rain Let It Pour- Meyer Davis Orchestra, voc. by Billy Murray...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VbJJQXwX4o

    This badly needed a different playback curve. But one can hear the some of the live (er) sound they recorded their electrics with at Victor early on, before they started damping the walls of the studios. In the Ted Weems side in the first post of this thread, that live (er) sound is back, in better fidelity.
     
  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Wow, that was a great one. Wonderful melody, a Joe Oliver trumpet imitator at the end and BILLY MURRAY vocal, sounding just like he does on a zillion ancient acoustics and Edison's I have.

    Going to mark this one for pickup. Bat wing electrics can be good!
     
  12. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    Billy sounds like his old exuberant self.

    I Wonder Where My Baby Is To-night is another electrical batwing, pairing Billy with that other stalwart of the acoustic horn, Henry Burr. A song of a more modern style for the youngsters of 1925.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iInYn6CgGP0
     
  13. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Same Meyer Davis?:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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  15. ^ Billy Murray! :righton:
     
  16. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    I'd like to find my own copy of this early Victor electric..

    Freshie by Waring's Pennsylvanians. Recorded in Los Angeles in September, 1925

    Interesting recording (very live sound for 1925) and fun tune...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oDkTH7wxpg
    Don't miss the uploader's notes to the video.
     
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Sure.

    I bet this thread is the first time Meyer Davis' name was ever typed here at the SH Forums.

    George Metz told me that Davis was not a person, he was a Dance Band World unto himself. He had a bunch of bands all over the country, all called the Meyer Davis Orchestra. Guy had a great idea. Find good arrangements, add some dance tunes, make it respectable but slightly naughty and just clone his "brand" all over the country. By the time he was 25 he was the most known bandleader in the country and he didn't even have to leave his neighborhood. Good gig and he was still going when I was being taught about him in the 1970s.

    Hell, if he had lived long enough you would have seen a "Disco With Meyer Davis" album for sure!
     
  18. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Music as a franchise, brilliant!

    On a related note, it's interesting to me that some legendary bandleaders were not musicians themselves, ie: Cab Calloway.
     
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Many in the 1920s were just front men, usually rich college boys who wanted to lead a band (like ROGER WOLF KAHN who had good sense and hired TEAGARDEN, etc.)
     
  20. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    Kahn did at least play the saxophone, though.







    Here's another from that Waring session, same day.

    Mighty Blue...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZyiWFNF34c
     
  21. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    Once more with Waring's Pennsylvanians and a surprisingly swampy sounding take on Stack O' Lee, recorded in Camden, 1923...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecwoKRo7tjo&feature=related

    Very, nice loud and clear acoustic recording, though it seems the record should be playing an rpm or two faster.
     
  22. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Just needledropped a lot of 12 hit of the weeks, while working on that catalog of my 78s :righton:
    1036 C59 University Of Maine Stein Song Hotel Pennsylvania Music 1930 Hit Of The Week E- Released 4/10
    1101 D50 Somewhere In Old Wyoming Hit Of The Week Orchestra 1930 Hit Of The Week E- Released 10/30
    1104 301 My Baby Just Cares For Me Ted Fio-Rito's Orchestra 1930 Hit Of The Week E- Released 11/13
    1111 103-1111 If I Could Be With You One Hour To-night Hit Of The Week Orchestra 1930 Hit Of The Week E- Released 12/11
    1118 E E 2/J The Little Things In Life Hit Of The Week Orchestra 1931 Hit Of The Week E- Released 1/15
    1135 C13 The King's Horses Hit Of The Week Orchestra 1931 Hit Of The Week E- Released 4/9
    1153 B 5 Let's Get Friendly The New York Twelve 1931 Hit Of The Week E- Released 7/16
    M 2 2 1 You Call It Madness/Auld Lang Syne Freddie Rich's Radio Orchestra Featuring Helen Rowland 1931 Hit Of The Week E- Released 12/10
    M 3 4 2 Call Me Darling/Comin' Thro' The Rye Freddie Rich's Radio Orchestra Featuring Paul Small 1931 Hit Of The Week P Released 12/17, Numerous marks and indentations/holes.
    MM-4-5 1183 A 2 2 E You Try Somebody Else Rudy Vallee with His Connecticut Yankees 1931 Hit Of The Week E- Released 12/24, Hal Phyfe photo on back!
    A-2-3 1188 D 7 Now's The Time To Fall In Love/After The Ball Phil Spitalny's Music Featuring Paul Small 1932 Hit Of The Week E- Released 1/14
    A-3-4 11910 8 Home Rudy Vallee with His Connecticut Yankees 1932 Hit Of The Week E- Released 1/21, Hal Phyfe photo on back!


    Amazing that I found a lot of them in this good a condition. I think the Durium material is inherently noisier than shellac on modern playback equipment (perhaps not on period-correct equipment), but condition-wise I don't think they would be surpassable. I tend to be a conservative grader as well.
    Shame about the poor condition of the 12/17/31 disc tho. I couldn't even get a playback out of it at half speed. I needed to drop down to a quarter of the speed for that disc!
    Anyone here collect these or interested in these?
     
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    I have the jazzy ones with Venuti/Lang like IT'S THE GIRL etc. I use a nickel.
     
  24. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    Here's a request. How about one or more of those Historic Masters pressings you were talking about on another thread? :edthumbs:
     
  25. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    It is hard to find those in decent condition out 'in the wild.' Often they have creases and stuff in them. Or the surfaces are wiped out. Might have to canvass e-bay to find good ones.
     

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