Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by TheLazenby, Jun 18, 2013.
Paul didn’t mention money. The guy just doesn’t want to share his toys.
Not sure about the current situation, but years ago collectors wouldn't share any lost footage because the BBC had a rigid policy of claiming full ownership of any film/tape they'd tried to destroy with no payments either, hence many collectors kept very quiet about what they had, the BBC may have adopted a more pragmatic approach since.
They don’t pay for lost material (though I suspect that private parties might perhaps arrange “finder’s fees” for the donor), but all they ask for is access to make a high-quality copy. They don’t claim ownership of the original media—whoever has it can keep it, or even legally sell it.
I remember this being discussed in a trade magazine of some description back in the mid-nineties and back then apparently the policy was that the BBC claimed ownership of anything that was once theirs, while I can see their point of view it likely cost them access to a lot of material so it's good that they've changed their approach.
Back then, they also typically refused offerings of incomplete episodes and secondary material (film trims, teasers, etc.). Fortunately, they’ve wised up a lot.
Thankfully, the BBC’s charter now specifically requires that they maintain an archive of broadcast material. It still doesn’t require them to keep anything beyond a “representative” selection, but it does at least mandate that “The BBC must not destroy, sell or otherwise dispose of any material that it has broadcast or otherwise distributed which it decides not to preserve in any archive without first offering that material, free of charge, to such bodies as are engaged in maintaining sound, television and film archives as it considers appropriate.”
Sometimes I think I'd like a 'special edition' where the Caves Of Androzani ends with Peter Davison regenerating into Sylvester McCoy (preferably commencing with Remembrance Of The Daleks but I'd probably be able to stand Paradise Towers if I had to).
Never mind paying, the BBC refused to even give a basic simple credit on the releases for the people who provided audio recordings for junked episodes! The home audio tapers who made such audio releases possible after their own mismanagement of sole extant copies of so many programs with future profitability literally around the next corner from when they started trashing the films because storage space cost and nobody would ever watch B&W programs again... not worthy of the smallest acknowledgement? Not much later they had top people who actively wanted the program gone, saying it was embarrassing, unlike their grandiose super soap ideas (which by the way sank faster than anything despite huge budgets and supposed stars). Now they are sending out DVD-Rs of Doctor Who (and perhaps other shows?) when you order from them.
I’m pretty sure they always gave credit to the taper on the Doctor Who ‘missing episode’ CD releases, example of one mentioning David Holman:
This is dated info from an old fanzine from me... there was some early one where the taper was promised it and didn't get it (the fanzine was incensed J N-T was credited which might tell you what fanzine I read this in). Maybe the noise about it got them to do the right thing on later releases?
That image is from the initial batch of missing episode CD releases in 2003. I’d have to check the booklets in other titles in that series but I thought all of them gave credit. I’ll check when I get the chance.
That was a long time ago. Much more recently, they’ve even done documentary featurettes about many of the people who made off-air recordings or helped recover episodes or clips.
One of the features I’m most curious about in the Season 22 Blu-ray is a new interview with Michael Grade, one of the BBC execs who best fits your description—he’s the one who put the series on an 18-month hiatus following season 22, and (so they say) tried to get John Nathan-Turner to quit by making him fire Colin Baker. In the trailer for the Blu-ray, they tease that interview, saying “it’s time to tell the story from the villain’s point of view!”
I haven’t heard this…
Those tapers are also thanked by name in the booklets for the new Blu-rays when their soundtracks are used, and they’re listed in the actual programme credits for the animated episodes that use their soundtracks.
I double-checked, and was mistaken about that. They’re not listed in the booklets—I think they’re just listed in the animation/reconstruction credits.
I don't know about a resurgence, but they have definitely leaned on the later, lesser seasons... with most of the Colin Baker and McCoy era now out (or soon to be out). Only Season 25 from the last five seasons remains to be released. It's a little surprising they haven't done another Peter Davison season so far, but I suspect we'll see one within the year. I've actually enjoyed watching some of the "lesser" seasons. Perhaps it's because I've watched them so little in the past and my opinion of them was so low that I set myself up to be pleasantly surprised by them. They weren't quite as bad as I remembered them. Having said that, I don't consider Season 22 to be a particularly bad season. There are several solid stories in that season. I also consider Timelash a guilty pleasure... so bad that it's entertaining.
I'm also hearing talk of Season 2 being in the works. Only two episodes of the The Crusade are missing from that season. They will likely be reconstructed for the set, unless an animation is ordered. Season 1 seems like a no-brainer for the 60th Anniversary in 2023. They just have to figure out how to handle they will present Marco Polo.
The info I'd read (not your scan) was about the releases in the middle '90s on cassette.
I haven't heard... I've recently received. One Davison and two McCoys. All three have a plain 'DVD' lettering where they used to have the a disc as part of the lettering.
I’m still not quite sure what you mean. I gather you’re saying you recently purchased some DVD releases, and you believe you received DVD-Rs instead of pressed discs? Who did you buy them from?
Some of the DVD titles being sold in Region 1 are now burned DVD-R discs instead of factory-stamped DVDs. When stock has run out of the factory-made discs, they are switching over to made-on-demand discs to keep the titles "in print." Several titles sold through Amazon are DVD-Rs.
I haven't heard of any Region 2 (UK) releases being DVD-R discs at this point. Despite living in North America, I ended up collecting the Region 2 discs for a variety of reasons:
1. They are in higher resolution. They are 576 pixels instead of 480 pixels.
2. They tend to have fewer errors than the Region 1 discs.
3. They are less edited than Region 1 discs. (Example: They retain the Beatles scene in The Chase.)
4. They are cheaper, even when factoring in shipping... especially if you order several at once.
The only caveat is that you need a multi-region DVD player that can play Region 2 PAL discs... or you have to convert them on your PC to MKV files.
Having said that, I would encourage people to collect the new BluRay season sets instead of the DVDs at this point. They are region-free and contain all the extras of the DVDs, plus have several new features... not to mention the best possible video and sound quality. While many of the extras are HD, the stories themselves aren't HD (except for some scenes shot on film), but they take advantage of the BluRay format to upscale the image and minimize the amount of compression. They look as close to the original video recordings as possible.
Regarding your point 2, with the DVD releases the opposite is true - some of the discs were released in the UK with errors which were fixed for the US. This was because there was a lag time between UK and US DVD releases and there was time to fix the errors before the US release dates. The Restoration Team web site used to have a lot of this info in their ‘message’ board but they removed it years ago. I think (?) Steve Manfred’s site used to document these as well but I believe that section is now removed.
For point 1, true the resolution is different but so is the frame rate, with UK DVDs being 25 frames per second (FPS) vs the US at 30 FPS. So US DVDs will render motion ‘better.’
The current crop of UK DVDs on the marketplace have less errors than the US DVDs because many of the UK editions were re-released as part of their "Revisitations" series. Also, the frame rate might be different, but compromises were made to increase the frame rate from 25 fps to 30 fps. I believe this was done by having occasional repeated frames. Having had both UK and US DVDs in my collection, I can attest that the increased resolution beats out any increase in frame rate. It's also arguable that the 25 fps rate better matches the source material.
The differences aren't huge either way. The main reason to go for the UK DVDs is they have less edits (in a few key stories) and they are cheaper... and they aren't DVD-Rs!
Revisitations only had 8 classic Who stories, right? Or am I missing some? Of those 8, IIRC only 3 (Seeds of Death, Caves of Androzani and Tomb of the Cybermen) haven’t been on Blu-ray yet. There are a number of errors on the UK discs outside of these 8 titles that aren’t on the US discs though.
I’m curious how noticeable the increased resolution is on non-Revisitation discs like Seeds of Doom, have you compared that one by chance?
Are there any differences in edits between the US vs UK Bluray collections?
The Season 12 set contained an extra documentary on the UK edition about British television in 1975.
It also sounds like the upcoming Season 22 set will have different edits for Revelation of the Daleks, thanks to a scene that contains Jimi Hendrix music in the background. The UK set will likely contain the original music, while the North American set will likely have it replaced. At least that is what Mark Ayers hinted at recently at the Gallifrey Base forums... as he is responsible for the sound restoration on the BluRay sets. When asked if the Hendrix music will be heard, he said "It depends on where you live."
I suspect the same issue may arise when it comes to the Beatles appearance on The Chase when they get around to the Season 2 set.
I suspect the Beatles scene will have to be omitted in all regions, just as “Paperback Writer” had to be replaced in all regions for the recent “Evil of the Daleks” animation.
The worst case for US DVDs is probably the couple dozen Pertwee episodes that were recovered from US videotapes. They were originally PAL, then converted to NTSC in the Seventies (when the technology to do that was very poor), then converted back to PAL for modern restoration, then reconverted to NTSC for the US DVD releases. That’s three separate field rate, resolution, and color signal conversions, each of which incurred at least some loss of quality.
Separate names with a comma.