Doctor Who General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by RubberBallMan, Apr 30, 2020.

  1. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I read her agent is begging her to leave the show as it's slowly destroying her career being as bad as it is, it's not good to be the face of a disaster.
     
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  2. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Not according to Wiki which says the people running the series were RTD and Julie Gardner, so it's a bit of a stretch to say Chibnall was running the show.

    I also think that writing sci-fi is harder than normal drama writing, as the ideas need to make sense within the internal logic of the show, you can't just make it up, which Chibnall seems to do, and it's doubly hard when it is long running established characters. I think the Marvel film writers have done very well to respect the history and create/adapt new stories but Chibnall seems to be better at normal dramas (with better acting talent).
     
  3. MikaelaArsenault

    MikaelaArsenault Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire
    What I read was that it will be in keeping with her predecessors who also completed three seasons before moving on to other projects.
     
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  4. MrCJF

    MrCJF Best served with coffee and cake.

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I goes higher up than that. McCoy and the team were let down by Michael Grade, the Director General of the BBC who made it his mission to cancel Dr Who. He drained it's budget and moved it around the schedules until the audience figures dropped. I think it was an expensive program in its time. The special effects weren't great but they were expensive by TV standards at the time. Another popular but expensive family show - the Goodies - also suffered the same fate.

    Michael Grade: "I Hated Doctor Who"
     
  5. Andy Smith

    Andy Smith .....Like a good pinch of snuff......

    Yes, Michael Grade is not popular still amongst Whovians. We have long memories.
     
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  6. Trashman

    Trashman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    It was accepted that both male and female Time Lords existed, but it wasn't established that they could swap genders during regeneration until after the program was over 50 years old. It isn't all that surprising that some fans would have issues making a major change to the lead character after so many years. I heard just as many complaints about it from female fans as I did from male fans.

    Personally, I was happy to accept a female Doctor and hoped it would bring new life to the show. Sadly, I think Jodie wasn't a strong enough actress to pull it off. Combined with poor show-running and subpar writing, Jodie's era has been a failure. Also, all actors to date have made the role their own, but Jodie just seems kind of lost in the role. It's as if she doesn't really understand the character she is playing, nor does it seem like she wants to.
     
  7. Trashman

    Trashman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    He often complained about how it fell short against the special effects of movies like Star Wars, but he was unwilling to provide a budget for ever barely-adequate effects... let alone anything impressive. In reality, he simply hated the show and then thought up excuses later on to justify his hatred.
     
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  8. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    The same complaint was lodged against the post Tom Baker Doctors in the 80s. The issue at least back then, as I understand it, was the rather controlling direction which didn't allow the three actors enough scope and latitude to create a personality they were comfortable with. It is one thing to have a strong director in a one off movie but in a continuing TV series it is counterproductive. The episodes where Davison, C Baker and McCoy were able to downplay the external compulsions and get decent scripts I find enjoyable. I haven't seen the new Lady Doctor but in general a variety of actors, all with widely differing background and personalities, were able to create an effective Doctor when they were given the latitude and had a workable script. Absent that there is no strong reason to continue the series.
     
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  9. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Toy sales?

    BBC merchandising?

    We can have a debate about the artistic merit of continuing the show, personally I think with a talented team it's still an interesting concept and there are always ideas to explore, but this is the age of the 'franchise', where everything, even relatively modest film/comic/book/whatever, just becomes a franchise and they just keep churning out film after film or tv series after tv series or whatever. They don't really cancel anything these days, everything is kept alive to flog product, be it cinema tickets or t-shirts or action figures. Can you imagine Disney saying they had finished with Star Wars or the Marvel Universe?

    I expect the BBC has toy contracts, book deals etc, and it's a show they can sell around the world. Plus they rely on hooking young fans who will grow up to support the show in the future and buy product. The BBC don't have much left like this. I'm no expert either but I would assume shows like Fleabag or Killing Eve, which are made by a production company, are not fully owned by the BBC so they get less of a cut of the money when it's sold to other countries?
     
  10. Slackhurst Broadcasting

    Slackhurst Broadcasting Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liverpool
    The BBC are very unlikely to simply cancel Doctor Who. On the other hand if its ratings are too low for a peak time BBC1 slot, it's in trouble. Bear in mind that very few telefantasy shows have succeeded in that level of exposure (and expected audience) on British TV. The X-Files failed when it was tried in the 90s. Game Of Thrones, The Walking Dead, the revived Star Treks, Lost, Fringe, Heroes etc never came near a try.
     
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  11. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    I've not watched Dr Who properly since the first season of Capaldi's and whilst I enjoyed his performance the writing was really starting to slip, IMHO.

    What I will say about the current incarnation is that my 11 year old daughter has watched all of the 'New Who' from Eccleston thru to Whittaker and whilst I thought she would like a female Doctor this incarnation his her least favourite. She prefers Tennant and Smith and can't decide between the two.

    My own personal view is that whilst I have no objection to a female Dr I think the BBC did if for the wrong reasons, bowing to external pressure to be more 'PC' or whatever the term should be. Instead of picking the best person for the role and writing to suit they went ahead with an agenda and as such alienated some of it's audience in the process and limited what Whittaker could do in the role.

    As alluded to already above the writing needs to be sorted out, I'm not sure a 'showrunner' as such should be in place as it gives too much power to a single individual. I can't comment too much on Jodie Whittaker's performance as other than the first couple of episodes of her reign I've not seen anything but according to my daughter she is a bit 'boring'... which is probably a fault of the writing rather than Whittaker herself.
     
  12. Andy Smith

    Andy Smith .....Like a good pinch of snuff......

    For this reason alone I don't think the bookies would take your money if you tried to put a grand down on the next Doctor being an actor of colour. I NEVER would have had an objection to a black actor playing the role. If a decade back they'd have gone in that direction it wouldn't have bothered me one iota. I'm a fan of the show and will always watch. But I feel the Beeb may get sucked into the whole Black Lives Matter thing and make a choice to keep a movement happy, rather than picking someone for acting reasons. Doesn't feel right and would be undue pressure on the actor. I WANT a black Doctor. There will definitely be a right time for that choice, but leave it a few years so fingers can't wag and voice the opinion that the BBC caved.
     
  13. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    Yes, it should just be the best actor for the role. Beyond that I don't have any preferences. I am of course going through the prism of my daughter's experience and whilst she hasn't explicitly stated it outright she does seem underwhelmed by a female Doctor. I don't think she would bat an eyelid if the Doctor had been a male, black actor though. As long as he was right for the role.
     
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  14. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    My one minor quibble with changing the Doctor to a female is that it took away one of the reasons I liked the Doctor so much when I was growing up. Here was a male character who wasn't your typical action hero, he didn't rely on strength or skills with weapons and he was a bit of a geek. He could also be a cantankerous old sod or just downright weird, none of which were the typical traits of a leading male character.
    So for me it took away some of the reasons for liking the character in the first place. And whilst it now gives girls somebody to look up to it has taken it away for the boys when really the best answer would be to create a separate, new, strong female character. Either in the world of Dr Who or in an entirely new and separate vehicle.

    But that would require strong writing and imagination... instead, IMHO, the BBC took the path of least resistance with questionable results.
     
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  15. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    Please, as fans here, not business people in charge of the Dr Who franchise, we are interested in the merits of a cherished by many entertainment series. Why would we cheer on new programs which trash the series when we are spending money, not making it? If no one pressures the folks in charge then of course they will throw out any lousy product based on the better efforts of past creators. You are arguing in favor of a captive audience because otherwise someone would have to move on to another job.
     
  16. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    At what point does the BBC try to keep the fans happy? Impressing or placating social media influencer who likely don’t and didn’t watch the show makes little sense, and clearly some of the choices that Chibnall has made regarding the Doctor’s past has upset fans.

    I too don’t care if the Doctor is a person of color at all. Should it have been done in the Classic Who days? Probably...so we are overdue. But I agree with you that the BBC should avoid the appearance of contrivance.

    I still disagree with making the Doctor a woman (but still watch) and really think the timing of it made it a stunt rather than a genuine casting choice.

    The comment above about The Doctor being your atypical male hero is spot on and probably what attracted me to the show to begin with. I do not tend to like science fiction (Star Wars, Star Trek, etc) nor do I watch any of the Marvel/DC films. Honestly, I think it’s good for young kids to have a male role model like that.
     
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  17. MrCJF

    MrCJF Best served with coffee and cake.

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The Doctor being a woman is not much different to a Star Trek captain being a woman. They flagged it up with The Master/Missy in Capaldi's first series so they must have been thinking about it even then. But I do mourn the loss of a mature, intelligent male role model in what was for a few years the biggest family show on TV. I thought they had done really well with the female characters in the TRD/Moffat years. But as I said earlier, the writing has become more exposition and less dynamic character or plot driven.
     
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  18. Drew

    Drew Senior Member

    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    I don't care if the next Doctor is female, black or both... if the quality of the stories dont improve nothing else matters. It's very close to the point where I dont know why a quality actor or actress would take the part.
     
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  19. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I'm not arguing for anything. I am explaining why the BBC won't cancel it. Please read more carefully.
     
  20. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Exactly. If I was a young talented actor would I want to join such a toxic show with terrible writing...I'm not sure. A job's a job and all that but would it help or damage your career?

    Knowing how Chibnall likes to troll the hardcore fanbase though I will put 50p on the next Doctor being a transgender black person.
     
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  21. Evethingandnothing

    Evethingandnothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon
    Started watching when The Doctor took the guise of Patrick Troughton, but I don't remember a great deal of those, except for the Yeti in the London Underground and a few other storylines. Grew up with Jon Pertwee and in some ways my fave. Some really classic adventures there, and the first run ins with The Master. Was aghast when The Doctor transformed into Tom Baker, but soon shook that off as Baker was superb. Perhaps the best Doctor of all. Lost track of the Tardis around the Sylvester McCoy era. When it reappeared I stuck it out for a while but can't say I'm a huge fan of the new ones. Maybe that's just me and my age though.

    I used to collect and read the books in the 70's which was great as it gave me a feel for the William Hartnell era. I'm a big fan of the Peter Cushing films too. I'm somewhat bemused by the "behind the sofa" reference to Dr Who as I can't think that there are many for whom this is applicable, but that's precisely where I used to watch it from in the early days.
     
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  22. MrCJF

    MrCJF Best served with coffee and cake.

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It helped that I had a 7 yr old son when the reboot started. He really enjoyed the show and the fact they did a 45 min documentary for each episode was fantastic, we were into those as much as the actual show.
     
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  23. BwanaBob

    BwanaBob Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    That says more about 'you' if a hero or role model 'has' to be of your own gender. Not everyone feels that way and I'd wager it's a lot closer to 50/50 split than not.
     
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  24. Evethingandnothing

    Evethingandnothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon
    If I remember rightly I think I objected to Daleks being able to go up stairs in the Sylvester McCoy series. Of course in the newer series's Daleks can do all sorts of weird and wonderful things. My main objection to the newer series is the emotional content. Christopher Eccleston seemed to be possessed by some alien force in that regard. I wanna see Dr Who quirkily yet dispassionately figure out ways to defeat megalomaniacal aliens. The later series's had an almost soap opera feel to them. But I'm not really familiar with anything post Tennant. I've probably missed out on some good stuff. I have no problem with the Doctor being a woman, but being a liberal kind of a guy I find the current race/gender agenda in film and television to be somewhat patronising. Ah well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
  25. MrCJF

    MrCJF Best served with coffee and cake.

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I would disagree - the portrayal of gender stereotypes has been a massive cultural issue in the media over the last 20 - 30 years, especially in children's media - I'm thinking from the time of the first Disney Beauty and The Beast onwards.
     

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