Does the new Project Debut Carbon DC fix the motor hum problem?

I guess if you don't like lumpy mats, then the clear answer is the higher priced model.

 

Anyone have any experience with the linear power supply that Pro-ject makes for its components / turntables?

Looks like a nice, albeit expensive, upgrade if you use their phono box or speed box as well. But would the previously described printer / laptop power supplies with transformers sort of give you the same benefit for much cheaper?

Pro-Ject Audio Systems

 

A couple of thought on that. If a company makes a model, "any model" that has a mat so inferior that it won't stay flat and produces a product that has inherent 120 Hz hum that cannot seem to be fixed, and they are willing to let things go for not a few weeks or months, but years, I would look more closely at VPI or Rega for the more expensive table.

 

I have this particular model, and that mat stayed perfectly flat with a record underneath it. My complaint about it was that it was a static attractor, which is why I got the acrylic platter. And whatever hum it generates can be cured by simply removing the dust cover.

 

I would like to ask you a few questions. Without the new acrylic platter, do you recall hearing that 120 Hz Hum/buzz when you lowered the stylus down on the record? That was the real acid test. Other people have complained about "general" 60 cycle hum that many turntable set ups suffer from, but it was that one test that identified the specific design problem of the Debut Carbon, and if you viewed the YouTube video with the red Debut Carbon, the owner goes into detail as to where the hum/buzz comes from, and how it makes it's way to the cartridge, three different ways. I noticed you say in your post that the acrylic platter curved or reduced the hum. Does your table have that very specific problem I was referring to in my posts, which you have reduced by using the acrylic platter? You could possibly reduce it further if you placed another mat on the acrylic platter, don't know, have you tried that? Does the removal of the dust cover completely eliminate the problem on your table? I have several friends that have the carbon and it was simply too late for them to return theirs, and they simply cannot find a way to kill the buzz, so I thought I would ask some questions and hopefully find out some possibilities. I have not run into anyone that says the problem has been completely eliminated, only reduced, and one other person mentioned removing the dust cover, however other people posted that did them no good. So the quest goes on to figure this out.

 

Happy enough with my D.C. Carbon, no hum at all, I'm running a AT100e, and no rubbers under the motor, it's just floating. Hoping to upgrade to a 440 or om bronze shortly

 

I didnt say the acrylic platter reduced hum, I said that the acrylic platter reduced static. I also said that the hum from my debut carbon was caused by the dust cover vibrating and simply removing it solved the problem. Even from the beginning I have never heard a hum through the stylus unless I cranked the volume far above what I consider comfortable listening.

 

I have seen this video as well and I did have a bit of this type of noise with the Carbon but not as bad as the video. I think that this problem is a function of the metal platter. I could make my carbon quiet by holding the platter. The metal platter is one reason I returned mine, it seemed to cause more problems than it was worth. The Essential seems to be a better when it comes to noise caused by the platter. I have replaced the stock felt mat with a bit more sturdy one, which if nothing else, stays in place. The new WHITE belt I got from the dealer fixed the speed problem I was having and the biggest improvement was with the regulated power supply, which got rid of almost all the noise. I would agree with other posts in that, the noise can only be heard at high volume, however for me this is a problem because I listen to a lot of music with quiet passages and the noise can be heard, it might not be a problem if you are listening to AC/DC all the time. As of now I am happy with the sound and will probably upgrade to a acrylic platter in the future.

 

I'm so pleased I was able to give you some information on the Debut Carbon turntable. I wrote the article you reference in this post. I would like to know, what you finally did in regard to your turntable? Hope to hear from you.

 

Let me respond to your repeated question, as it seems no one is answering you. From what I have gathered on the Internet the DC version has not changed the 120 Hz hum/buzz introduced by the motor used in the Debut Carbon. When the DC version came out, everyone thought ok, this is it, they addressed the problem, however it is my understanding this AC/DC thing happens in the wall wart, and I'm not sure what it does, it's a mystery, hopefully someone on here can say exactly what the wall wart does, however, here is the key, the motor used on the newer DC version is still the AC version motor, that is right, it is NOT a DC motor, but rather the older AC motor. I purchased mine from Musician's Friend and they are very easy to work with. If you have read my reviews of the turntable you will see the other drawbacks, the tiny arm pick up that all but guarantees you will drop the arm at some point in time, the razor thin mat, and other things, however if you want to try the DC version, you can send it back, so purchase it and by all means, conduct your hum/buzz test the second you get the table assembled, exactly as show on this thread, by the man that owned the green Debut Carbon. If it does not hum/buzz when that stylus hits the lead in grooves, between tracks, and as the stylus tracks out at the end of the record, you are SAFE, otherwise, send it back, like I did. Yes, it is a risk and a pain in the butt to have to take a chance, and assemble the table, but with this turntable, it's a dice roll, even with the DC version that still has an AC motor.

 

I have had my Project DC for 5 days now. Mixed bag. At first it was reasonably quiet, so I thought perhaps I received a good unit. Then an hour ago I heard a pronounced hum when a song finished. It was most certainly the dreaded 120 Hz buzz talked about.

Here is what I tried:
Unplugged the TT power supply - no change (left it unplugged for remaining tests).
Unplugged RCA cables leaving ground in place - slight improvement.
Took out stock cable and put in shielded quality RCA cables and a heavier duty ground cable - perhaps slight improvement but still present.
Somewhat frustrated, I took the ground wire and started to move it around, touching it to different parts of my amplifier - no change.
I then rubbed the ground wire against the RCA cables - sound immediately disappeared completely. I plugged back in the power supply and am playing a record with quiet background.

Weird. I am certainly no electrical engineer. Something happened though, unless it was random. I suspect I somehow sent some energy back into the TT which reset something. How is that for vague and useless?

Any thoughts on what happened?

 

I would say since this 120 Hz hum/buzz has been a part of this quality product for years and years and nothing has been done to correct the problem, and no one seems to have come close to solving the problem, if you solved it by rubbing the ground wire against an RCA cable, just enjoy the table and say a prayer of thanksgiving that you have been truly blessed, also knock on wood, you are a fortunate individual indeed. Not really sure I understand how one can test for the hum with unplugged power supply and unplugged RCA cables, leaving the ground in place?? If the power supply was unplugged, there would be no hum. If the RCA cables were unplugged, there would be no signal and no sound, that should improve everything to just have the carbon RCA plugs unplugged! It absolutely sounds better with no cables at all plugged in.

 

I agree. It was dead silent with everything unplugged However surprising, there was still a hum (albeit quieter) with even just the ground plugged in (no power cord, no RCA). I have no explanation. Just sharing what I heard. Happy for now... I suppose. But generally speaking I like things that work the same everyday of the week. I have 55 days yet to return it, so I will take my time but if it happens again I think I will send it back. If it remains quiet I think it is a steal. If you take off $100 for the cartridge and $50 for the cover and $100 for the tonearm, the turntable is definitely worth the last $150 IMO. But only if the damn thing doesn't buzz!

 

You are so right my friend! Be careful with that tonearm, you can drop that thing in a heartbeat, as the pickup on the head shell is so darn small. There will be no one finger pickups with that tonearm. Also, get rid of that razor thin mat and get a nice thick felt mat or a leather mat or a rubber mat, anything but what came on it. Hey, you never mentioned, did you buy the DC version or the older AC version?

 

Supposedly I bought the newer version with "improved" power supply. I wanted to get the Funk Achromat but was worried it might change the VTA as it is thicker than stock mat. So I think I will just get Herbies thinnest mat. Or perhaps on this budget type turntable, VTA is the least of my worries. And I agree with you on the stubby tonearm pickup.

 

So I had a few quiet days without hum and then it returned again this evening. So I lifted the arm and went to move it back off the platter by the lifter and noticed that my fingers nearing the cartridge increased the hum. So I toyed with it for a few minutes. I could literally make music (albeit very bad music) with just the hum by dancing my index finger around the cartridge. I was not touching the cartridge but just moving my finger around the headshell area, all the while the hum changed intensity (not really much variation in pitch though - hence the bad music If I grounded my self against a metal object and then returned,I was able to completely stop the hum by approaching and or touching the headshell. Then if I moved my finger around the end of the tonearm again, I could not induce the hum. However, if I took my hands and rubbed them vigorously through my hair or on the carpet and then returned to my music making finger dance, the hum would immediately start back up. I believe there are probably numerous types of humming that plague the Project DC. I now know that at least one of my annoying hums is related to static electricity.

So, not surprisingly, I am returning my Project DC. Funny thing is that when I told my wife I was returning it and why she said, "This isn't the first thing you have returned because it is not perfect. When are you going to realize that life is not perfect?" Ahhhhhh! I should have married and audiophile! So now I have to decide: unhappy wife... or S&!^* A$$ turntable. Tough call... The table must go!

 

Wow, I think your email shows just how many noise problems that table has, and it's interesting you should mention your wife's comments. I believe that many people that are not familiar with turntables purchase the Carbon and just don't realize a turntable working properly should NOT hum. They purchase the turntable and think that 120 Hz hum/buzz is just normal. You know, with all the problems you had I'm not sure you ever said you tried the very specific test I told you about. It seems like yours just made noise when you even put your fingers near the cartridge, even mine did not do that. So let me ask this, did you ever start the platter and listen for that 120 Hz hum/buzz the second the stylus hit the lead in grooves or was tracking out from the end of the record? If yours was plagued with the problem most carbons have, that hum/buzz starts the second the stylus hits the lead in grooves, and stops when you pick the stylus up off the record, while the motor is on and the platter is moving, did you do that particular, specific test??

 

Yes, I tried that test as well and interestingly, that did not induce the hum (as far as I could tell). I heard the hum most when the needle wasn't even on the platter (no music playing was probably contributory to me hearing more hum). It would literally come and go. Very pronounced.

 

My Carbon seemed quiet in all other aspects, and I feel I would still have it if I had figured out the power supply problem sooner.

 

Ok, that is an entirely different scenario completely, standard 60 Hz hum plagues many turntables and installs, and sometimes is tough to find and can be caused by many different problems, however the hum/buzz I am describing is very identifiable, as it ONLY happens when the stylus is dropped on the lead in grooves and you listen to your speakers, and the second that stylus hits the lead in groove, that is when you hear the hum/buzz, and it's NOT the lower 60 Hz frequency, it's 120Hz, again, a buzz, very audible and very annoying. That is the unsolved problem that has plagued the Carbon for a good long time, and it is NOT resolved by the DC version of this table as many have reported the problem after purchasing the DC version (the motor is still an AC motor), so my suggestion to everyone is purchase from a good source, and as soon as you get your table up and running, let that stylus down on the lead in grooves and if you hear the buzz the second it hits the record, you will know you are not a lucky one, and the least you will have to do is replace the metal platter which rings, and replace the mat as it's as thin as a piece of toilet paper, that would be the first thing to try, after all the loosing the motor mounts or removing screws, etc, which does not do anything, but people like to go through the motions. If you do identify that buzz problem, pack it up and return it, as that is exactly what Project told me to do, which I did and purchased the VPI table. The folks I got mine from were very understanding and gave me no return problems at all.

 

I've had the Debut Carbon set up for a few days now, but haven't spent enough time to see (hear) if there is a hum. An earlier post on this thread mentioned the shipping screws for the motor, the poster removing them and then putting them back in to see if that had anything to do with the hum; so I had no idea why there was a tag on there that said remove the red screws...well....they looked like they belong there, so they're still there. I guess if they're supposed to be removed, I should remove them

 

Those are screws that secure the motor, I think on earlier versions there were shipping screws or the screws that are there were mistaken for shipping screws. Those screws are suppose to stay there. Project will tell you to "try" loosening the screws and try tightening and try taking them out, but taking out is the last option. They are suppose to be there, as they secure the motor. It's just my suggestion to turn that volume up a bit, put your ear near one of your speakers, drop that stylus on the record with the platter moving, motor on, and if you hear the buzz, don't take it any further, as I did, and never solved the problem with all the messing with screws and grommets, etc. I remember when I removed the screws on mine, the buzz went off the scale. I was able to change the buzz, but never eliminate it.

 

The screws on the earlier versions were not mistaken for shipping screws. They were in fact described as transport screws in the user manual, which is still available for download.

http://www.project-audio.com/inhalt/en/manual/manual_debut.pdf

 

I believe that 100%, and this was one of the things that made keeping them in or removing them so confusing to people. As I understand it, the new tables, as mine would have been considered new, the screws were not suppose to be removed, as they were not considered shipping screws. Even that being the case, Project would advise pulling them out to see if that helped the buzz.

 

I bought the Debut Carbon DC right when it came out a couple years ago. I didn't have the previous model to compare it to, but mine is dead quiet. I waited for the DC to come out because I had read about the hum issues. I'm very happy with my purchase.
As an aside, I was getting very bad IGD with the Ortofon Red cartridge that it came with, so I switched to an AT440mlb and it was a huge improvement. Quiet, clear, detailed, and accurate, maybe slightly thin. As someone who had always used cheap thrift store turntables with hum or speed issues, it's one of the best upgrades I ever made.