Does the new Project Debut Carbon DC fix the motor hum problem?

Thank you. These look fantastic. I've done away with the thin stock mat for something thicker which certainly helped, but this looks like it may really help.

 

Thanks for the input, but no, my phono pre amp is built in to my amp. The noise I had was definitely the power supply, which was an easy fix the hard one to get rid of is the mechanical hum/vibration from the motor. On the Essential the motor is hard mounted to the plinth and the vibration travels through the bearing and picked up by the stylus. I confirmed this by removing the belt, turning on the turntable and than cranking the volume. With the tonearm in the up position, off the surface of the record, you get the normal hum/buzz that you would expect. I than lowered the tonearm onto the record, that is not moving, and there is drastic increase in noise. So i am going to build a custom plinth that isolates the motor from the plinth, but not until the warranty runs out. Also this noise was not there with my old Luxman.... sure miss my old deck.

 

Hadn't come across this thread before, but I'll my add My Pro-ject woes here...

I had both a DC and non-DC version.

Pro's - nice looking table. At least to me. And most other folk. People used to comment favourably on mine when they saw it in my room.

Con's - Ran Fast (both my tables were 33.4).

Motor Noise (louder than it really should be, just below the threshold of record rumble).

Poor switching supply on the DC iteration. Introduces additional hum to the table, almost akin to a ground problem noise. Can be solved with the purchase of a quality linear supply. If you want to spend more cash. Which you likely will if/when you notice this problem.

Less than stellar sound. Not to be overly critical here considering price, but the sound is somewhat congested. Poor imaging also. I used to think the supplied 2m Red was the culprit here, but subsequently trying the cart on other tables revealed the Debut Carbon hampers the 2m's potential, and lends the overall sound the aforementioned congested sound.

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend this table to a friend who's looking to get into records. I'd be more inclined to point them towards an Audio Technica, or if at all possible, a good used 1200 deal. The problems with the Debut Carbon are many and varied. Indeed, you may pick up a good one, as some others seem to have done. If you're set on buying one, make sure you do so with ease of return in mind should problems arise. Personally, my experiences have turned me right off the Pro-ject brand, which is a shame considering they're one of the big players on the market. 400 odd bucks is not an inconsiderable sum of money to me (unfortunately!), and for that kind of money I expect a product to work as it should!

 

I just ordered my Pro-Ject Debut Carbon through Abt Electronics (very reputable site) and I'm hoping I'll be one of the lucky ones without any hum issues. I'll be connecting it to my Kenwood KR-4070 using the built in phono that powers my Pioneer SP-BS22-LR. I'm replacing my Kenwood KP-3021A that broke down on me. If I hear any hum I'll definitely be returning it and most probably ordering a U-Turn Audio Orbit Basic or and Audio Technica LP-120 until I can save to get something more substantial. Will come back with my findings early next week once the turntable comes in. Thanks for all the comments feedback everyone.

 

To follow up on this, the Herbie's mat was a fantastic purchase. Big thanks for the recommendation. Alleviated even more noise, and a big improvement in sound detail and separation. Tighter overall.

I found one final small, stupid thing that's helped even further with motor noise at 45RPM. It's as low as it's ever been, really only noticeable at all in headphones now during lead in/out grooves.
I have a piece of cardboard about a half inch or so that prevents the cover from fully being down on the table. HUGE difference.

 

Glad it worked out for you! If you like the table but find that you're getting bad IGD, I would recommend getting the AT440mlb as your next upgrade.

 

Well this stinks! My Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC just came in and after setting it all up the first thing I hear is the infamous hum. It actually sounded more like a buzz to me. I ended up ordering it through Amazon so returning it will be easy. Got a good deal through Best Buy for the Pro-Ject Essential II for $199 so I'll give that one a try. Here's hoping to no hum. I must admit though the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC did look oh so nice. Will come back next week with my findings on the Essential II.

 

Good luck, hope it works out. And it's pretty sad that this continues to be such a big problem with Pro-Ject products.

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+1. They have to know about the issue. They can't fix it, rather than continue to sell defective turntables?

 

Frankly, I'm not too surprised. Quick update from me now, with full-length to follow in the next week or so.

My table (the one with all the videos of EMI and RFI) went back to Sumiko a few weeks ago for warranty repair. It's due back in two days.

They think they've fixed the problems. 1) Faulty power circuit board, and 2) a bad cartridge (open coil on the blue/right-ground post). They say they could replicate my experience on the bench, and that it's quiet now in their testing environment.

BUT, this pertains to everybody, they also told me that 1) the Debut Carbon is a budget platform and simply doesn't have the shielding or grounding potential that other tables might, and 2) that their stock power supply does emit a fair bit of EMI and that's just a fact. To me, that means you either get a good one out of the box, or return it. Don't go down the insane grounding/interconnect/power-supply troubleshooting route like yours truly. Such a waste of time, stress, and money.

We'll see once I have my table back from Sumiko what a perfectly working, tested product looks like. Here's hoping for dead silence.

EDIT: Modifying my advice, you should already have double-shielded interconnects on hand, but don't go buying like 5 different interconnects and a linear regulated power supply, and an Ebtech Hum-X, and do all the DIY mods on the motor mount, etc etc. Try whatever you have on hand and if it works, great, if not, ditch the Debut Carbon (if not Pro-Ject altogether) and look elsewhere.

 

They do know about it and simply do not care. One guy even dedicated an entire website to it. Many people don't notice it (or pretend not to in the case of professional reviewers and such) and the products continue to sell, so why bother to improve the product? That is probably what Pro-Ject is thinking.

 

I wish you luck. Re: grounding, it's not that hard to ground something like a turntable. Most manufacturers had no trouble doing it back in the 70s with a simple ground wire. Pro-Ject/Sumiko is blowing smoke here IMHO.

 

What a shame.
I'm thankful the Music Hall tables don't have the same issues.

 

I'd be surprised if they didn't since they are made in the same factory with many of the same parts. If they truly don't have the motor noise, I'd be curious why that is.

 

Yeah, the whole " same factory" deal is why I am so surprised.
I have a MMF-5 with zero hum issues. Maybe it's the dual plinth? Maybe mine is too old to have the issue? I only hear about it with the Pro-ject tables though.

 

I would suspect the dual plinth to have better isolation. How is the motor mounted on that MMF-5? Does it have the rubber band supported motor mounts that the Pro-Jects have?

 

I think the lower model (MMF-2?) does use the orings, but the 5 series is different, you can see a breakdown with good pictures of motor replacement here ... The MMF-5 is back in action ... still looks to be mounted with rubber isolation parts ... the newer 7 series has free standing motor separated from plinth (I think).

 

I believe Dave is correct. I can't speak for the 2 series, but my 5 doesn't have O rings, and the 7.x (at least the newest ones) have a stand alone motor. (similar to some VPI)

 

It's too bad that it isn't hurting their brand/reputation quite enough to make them get off their keisters and fix the issue once and for all.

But, I guess they're 110% about profitability at a fairly low price point in this case. A re-design and/or higher parts-spec that fixed the issue might well drive the costs of the 'table up. Which is still no excuse. Anyone can sell janky stuff at a low price and try to skate by.

Of course, there are plenty of 'tables a lot cheaper than the Debut Carbon that DON'T have hum issues. So, what's Pro-Ject's excuse?
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I'd love to know. My personal opinion is that they are working with a fundamentally flawed design, not to mention very cheap motors and power supplies. This affects some of the more expensive models too, not just the Debut.

 

Received my Esprit SB back and it's no different. The stock PSU with stock interconnects makes an EMI buzz you wouldn't believe, and even with my aftermarket PSU and interconnects it's better but still not normal/acceptable. After spending $49 shipping the table to them and 3.5 weeks door-to-door turnaround time (at least the covered the return postage), that's more than a little frustrating. I've now gone the extra, extra mile and tried running my entire system on a sine wave UPS (CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD) via battery to rule out my power grid, and yep, no change there either. For what it's worth, the people at Sumiko, Pro-Ject's USA distributor, have all be very kind, helpful, and professional. Too bad this table is such a mess.

 

Four words: Take it skeet shooting.
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Unbelievable. Hope you can work out some kind of refund.

 

I also had problem with the buzz from the stock PSU. The buzz disappeared when I connected linear power supply that I bought on eBay. Not the cheapest option, but worked for me.

 

Been checking out a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB with the acrylic platter that I picked up from Best Buy a week ago. I have minor power supply hum, and a prevalent 120Hz buzz mostly in the left channel as soon as the needle enters the moving groove. However, I've discovered that at least on my table, the motor is not responsible for the buzz. Try unplugging the power supply and then pull the platter and remove the belt. Spin the platter up with your finger and lower the needle. 120Hz buzz on the lead in groove with the motor completely removed from the equation! I think the buzz is actually a resonance in the tone arm/cartridge combo. I don't think it is platter bearing rumble, because the buzz is just too consistent.

Could someone please confirm by removing their belt, spinning up the platter manually, and lowering the needle? If the buzz is still there like it is on mine, we can stop blaming the motor. Yes, the motor does add some noise, which you can easily hear when the needle is sitting in a stationary groove and the motor running, but the 120Hz buzz seems to be a different beast altogether.