Donald Fagen on Miles' Bitches Brew

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by The Panda, Feb 8, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    Don't hold back, Don..........

    "[the Album] is essentially just a big trash-out for Miles" "To me it was just silly, and out of tune, and bad. I couldn't listen to it. It sounded like [Davis] was trying for a funk record, and just picked the wrong guys. They didn't understand how to play funk. They weren't steady enough
     
    Rasputin, No Bull and bhazen like this.
  2. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise
    He couldn't be any more wrong.
     
    eyeCalypso, mwb, theMess and 5 others like this.
  3. Planbee

    Planbee Negative Nellie

    Location:
    Chicago
    I agree with Fagen...
     
  4. micksmuse

    micksmuse Forum Resident

    Location:
    san diego
    is that a recent quote? donald is getting a tad cranky as he ages. his recent book wasn't exactly a lovefest.
     
    BluesOvertookMe and bhazen like this.
  5. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Location:
    Europe
    Maybe, somebody told Mr. Fagen that his wife loves the album...
     
    CrombyMouse, krisbee, bek0727 and 8 others like this.
  6. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    It's more like a "Freak Out" album for Miles. Not for people who like standard tuning or ideals.

    I love the record.
     
  7. bhazen

    bhazen Yes, this IS a Beatles forum.

    I'm on the other side of so many arguments from the Donald (political ones especially)...

    ... but I gotta say, I agree with him, here. In fact, I get off the Miles train starting with In A Silent Way: largely tuneless one-chord jamming, to me. (And I'm a veteran one-chord-jamming rock guitarist!) I mean, his previous records were so classic, melodic and inventive: ESP, Miles Smiles, etc. It's not like I'm a hater of all he did thereafter - Jack Johnson is brilliant! - but that was kind of the end.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
    BGLeduc and No Bull like this.
  8. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chernigov, Ukraine
    I love In A Silent Way but Bitches Brew is meh
     
  9. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    I never saw the album as being anything to do with funk at all. I'd call it ambient voodoo.
    I also don't like it, much prefering "In A Silent Way", "Jack Johnson" and "On The Corner".
     
    smilin ed, mwb, cevans121 and 2 others like this.
  10. dino77

    dino77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Confirms why I don't like Steely Dan....booooooring.

    It's quite natural that rock-weaned listeners would go for Jack Johnson instead.
     
    eyeCalypso, supernaut and JohnnyQuest like this.
  11. D.H.

    D.H. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Malmö, Sweden
    It's not Miles greatest fusion record, but it's pretty damn good, and I'll take it over any Steely Dan album (though I have some in my collection).
     
    soundfanz, whisperinwind21 and dino77 like this.
  12. ATR

    ATR Senior Member

    Location:
    Baystate
    That's nothing compared to The Crouch Opinion.
     
    Robin L, PHILLYQ and BluesOvertookMe like this.
  13. Alternative4

    Alternative4 One of These Days I'll Get an Early Night

    Location:
    New Zealand
    He should try the quadraphonic version of the album, that would really get him grumpy!
     
  14. Arkay_East

    Arkay_East Forum Resident

    Location:
    ATX
    Love Steely Dan

    Disagree. Just my$.02 but damn. Bitches Brew isn't a typical record but it's definitely a work of art. And awesome. I listened several times before the material clicked with me, but once I was familiar with it I found it astoundingly beautiful. What can I say. YMMV.
     
    supernaut, rxcory, ARK and 3 others like this.
  15. Rob Hughes

    Rob Hughes Forum Resident

    Cat fight! Meow!
    I must say, though, that I find it oddly gratifying when one musical figure I like and respect trashes another musical figure I like and respect.

    I can't really take it seriously as the Truth (in this case: I admire and enjoy Bitches Brew and however much I also admire and enjoy the work of Mr Fagen, his word isn't going to change that fact).

    What I like, though, are two things:
    (a) it's sort of gratifying seeing great people act in petty ways: just a reminder that someone who's a genius in one context can be narrow-visioned in a different context, and that fact humanizes these people in ways that please me.
    (b) it invites me to think about the differences between the two. In this case, you can say that Steely Dan and Miles were both working on the edges of pop and jazz -- more precisely, Steely Dan was a pop/rock band that drew much inspiration from jazz and Miles, though definitely jazz, was with Bitches Brew working along the edge of jazz and funk and rock. So, you have two figures of great talent approaching similar edge, but one comes at it from a pop/rock angle and the other comes at it from a abstract-jazz angle and they just sort of miss each other. Completely, at least in Fagen's account. And that's interesting to think about as it bears upon what each finds differently valuable about that edge between jazz and rock.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing! RH
     
  16. rstamberg

    rstamberg Senior Member

    Location:
    Riverside, CT
    Donald's funny.
     
    supernaut, krock2009 and ARK like this.
  17. JETman

    JETman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knowing
    He's pissed that he has to pay royalties to Jarrett.
     
    eyeCalypso and Fullbug like this.
  18. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chernigov, Ukraine
    on the corner is also great. That's like freak funk.
     
    no.nine likes this.
  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Where does the quote come from?
     
    ganma likes this.
  20. majorlance

    majorlance Forum Resident

    Location:
    PATCO Speedline
    :doh:
     
    ARK likes this.
  21. majorlance

    majorlance Forum Resident

    Location:
    PATCO Speedline
    It appears to be from Don Breithaupt's 2007 book on Aja in the 33-1/3 series.
     
    MLutthans likes this.
  22. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Cheap. Really cheap.

    For the record, I agree with him.

    Ed
     
    smilin ed likes this.
  23. SuperFuzz

    SuperFuzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC USA
    He bashes the record for something that it doesn't even try to be - a funk record.

    What a maroon.
     
    DTK, bradman and ARK like this.
  24. Cassiel

    Cassiel Sonic Reducer

    Location:
    NYC, USA
    Bitches Brew is a funk record like Aja is new wave.
     
  25. Scroller

    Scroller Hair Metal, Smooth Jazz, New Age...it's all good

    "They didn't understand how to play funk. They weren't steady enough."
    This is on odd comment to me in the context of criticizing Miles Davis and the musicians that played with him. :wtf: I don't think Bitches Brew is trying to be funk, nor is it trying to be steadily played. I see it as pushing the limits of form and the results are creative and astounding.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine