Dr Feickert alignment tool

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by coolhandjjl, Dec 2, 2020.

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  1. Davey

    Davey NP: Rosali ~ Bite Down (2024)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    But why do you think the Pro-Ject specs are inaccurate if they work out almost exactly to Lofgren A with DIN radius values? The Dr. Feickert protractor uses the IEC value for inner groove radius, so they won't be the same, the Feickert will result in about 1 mm longer overhang and 0.5 deg more offset angle. When you use the Feickert, does it read the Pro-Ject spec of 200.5 mm for the pivot to spindle distance? I know you said before in the other thread that you didn't like the sound with it aligned using the CH protractor generated for 200.5 mm p-to-s distance.
     
  2. Ken Clark

    Ken Clark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    After years of aligning my cartridges with various printouts, I finally broke down and bought one of these. Terrific tool!
     
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  3. TSWisla

    TSWisla Forum Resident

    Some arms have the pivot covered and you'd have to "guess" where it is. Is there a work around for this?
     
  4. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus Thread Starter

    Location:
    Appleton
    Try looking at from various angles while you swing the arm back and forth.
     
  5. starbuck

    starbuck Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cloudy, UK
    You could place a small (and removeable) sticker over the pivot area of the tonearm you're using and place a dot on the sticker where you think the pivot point is. Then using a tool like the Dr. Feickert you can place the locater pin over the dot mark, move the tonearm over the record playing surface, and if the dot remains under the locater pin point as you move the arm across the record surface then you have found the pivot point. It can take a little trial and error to get the dot in the correct place on the sticker but moving the arm forwards and backwards across the playing surface, whilst observing the pin point over the dot on the top of the arm pivot, can confirm you have the protractor in the correct place for your arm.
     
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  6. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    sorry i cannot see this as being accurate enough for the best possible alignment.
    even if you can see the pivot bearing there is too much chance for error when extending the pin to align it.
    too many planes and angles that are not perfect.
    give me a protractor with the prescribed overhang arc any day of the week.
     
  7. Joe Spivey

    Joe Spivey Forum Resident

    isn't there a range of error for any measurement tool that fits over the spindle. it seems there is always a bit of "play" where the measurement tool and spindle meet. some less than others.
     
  8. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    Except that all alignments are a compromise between where the tonearm is tangent at two points and how this affects distortion at other points on the LP. In general, an error of less than a mm in deciding where the pivot point is would not in my opinion have an audible impact.

    JohnK
     
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  9. StratDoc

    StratDoc Sapien

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    If I can figure out how to post pics I will show you the alignment with Feickert.

    What is odd, is that Hoffman template Lofgren A with DIN equates to Stevenson alignment on the Feickert. Hoffman alignment template Stevenson with IEC does not equate to Feickert . Hoffman alignment template Stevenson with Typical does equate to Feickert.
     
  10. Budley

    Budley Forum Resident

    Location:
    TX, USA
    Couldn't you verify the pivot-to-spindle measurement with the provided tonearm specs? The turntable manufacturer should have this information. If not, Vinyl Engine has a pretty extensive database. This is what I had to do with my Mofi TT. The protractor measurement and the "practical pivot point" matched perfectly. Others may not be so lucky.
     
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  11. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Not gonna get a better alignment then when using the Feickert. The best one imo
     
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  12. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    when i tried to set the overhang to only the two null points it was off at the extremes of the arc by the spindle and edge of the platter.
    getting the stylus to land right on the arc line at the inner most and outer most points of the arc is about as good as you can get.

    Cartridge Alignment to Protractor Extremes
     
  13. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus Thread Starter

    Location:
    Appleton
    Many actual samples do not match the manufacturers published spec. And if the tone arm’s pivot point axis is not exactly plumb with regard to the platter, no tool or protractor will work.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  14. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus Thread Starter

    Location:
    Appleton
    Pics have to be posted on an image hosting site. There are many free ones. I use postimages.org
     
  15. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    With the Feickert you have 3 points. Overhang, then the 2 null points.

    I can also measure/verify correct spindle to pivot distance.

    I am guessing both the Mint and Feickert do a good job. If you get a Feickert though, you won't ever need to get anything else no matter your choice of table or arm.
     
    macster likes this.
  16. StratDoc

    StratDoc Sapien

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Let's see if this works for pics. First pic is spindle to pivot setup of Feickert. Second is Steveson setup. Third shows I would need to move cartridge almost to end of head shell for Lofgren or Baerwald - both of which result in degraded sound quality.

    IMG 1159 — Postimages
    IMG 1158 — Postimages
    IMG 1162 — Postimages
     
  17. Davey

    Davey NP: Rosali ~ Bite Down (2024)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    You should start using washers under the screw heads, looks like your headshell is getting kind of chewed up. Anyway, hard to follow all of the discussion, I think Feickert has listed the groove radius he used as 60.3 and 146 mm, so just the IEC values rounded off a bit. I don't understand why you would hear such dramatic changes with the different alignments, they are all fairly similar when playing a record, provided the overhang and offsets are set right for each. I experimented a bit in the past on my old Thorens table, but after that pretty much just stayed with Baerwald, and have been using the Hoffman generator for the last few years without issues. I've never used the Feickert protractor, but it obviously has a lot of fans, especially when it comes to installing tonearms. I think I asked up above someplace, but does the Feickert verify the 200.5 mm pivot to spindle distance that we derived from the Pro-Ject spec for effective length and overhang?


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    Code:
    [img]https://i.postimg.cc/c4Fvq4B6/IMG-1162.jpg[/img]
    
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  18. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus Thread Starter

    Location:
    Appleton
    There’s a hot link you can copy too. That’s what I use.
     
  19. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus Thread Starter

    Location:
    Appleton
    One of my tables is a Pioneer PL530. It has one of those overhang jigs with it, a plastic L shaped thing with a line on it. It was believed that those included jigs were Stevenson, so I did a test where I set my overhang using the Pioneer jig. Then I set up my Feickert, and my stylus was way shy of the Stevenson point on the Feickert plate. What I thought that told me was that the Pioneer jig was some unknown alignment, pretty much useless. But there is more weirdness. Whatever overhang I do decide on using the Feickert and then proceed to set alignment at point 1, when I swing over to point 2, the stylus always way overshoots where it is supposed to hit by 2~3mm. I just chalked it up to my tone arms pivot axis not being plumb, but maybe there’s something weird about a batch of Feickert’s and the marks are printed wrong.
     
  20. Davey

    Davey NP: Rosali ~ Bite Down (2024)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    I think point 1 is the only place the protractor is kept stationary and centered on the pivot, to set the overhang. Then you rotate it to center the stylus on either the inside or outside null point grid (or both) to align the offset angle.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
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  21. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus Thread Starter

    Location:
    Appleton
    My understanding was that once you set the silver metal tip right over the pivot point, you lock everything down. Then swing your tonearm to set overhang, Step 1.

    Then you are free to rotate the tool to check the outer alignment grid, which is Step 2.

    Here’s the confusion: Can I rotate the tool yet again for the inner alignment grid, Step 3, or does the tool need to stay right where it was when I did the Step 2?
     
  22. StratDoc

    StratDoc Sapien

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Yes, you can rotate the tool again for the inner grid, Step 3.
     
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  23. myles

    myles Argyle, before you ask ....

    Location:
    Plymouth, UK
    Unless of course you have dropped a new arm into an adjustable armboard - ifs buts and maybes I know
     
  24. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus Thread Starter

    Location:
    Appleton
    Awesome!!!!
     
  25. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    probably depends. my Mint is relatively tight to the spindle but I have seen others that had to be centered by eye.
     
    Joe Spivey likes this.
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