Dream Theater "Distance Over Time" (2019) album

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by agentalbert, Jan 15, 2019.

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  1. Valen2260

    Valen2260 Forum Resident

    I spun through the whole of Octavarium yesterday, and thoroughly enjoyed it. While Awake is probably my favourite album, the band definitely seemed to be on a peak with Octavarium.

    They seemed to get the balance right between harder metal guitar and their prog-symphonic keyboards, and the music seemed to bring out the best in LaBrie's singing, and you could even hear Myung's bass!

    After that, for me at least, they started drifting - good songs on each successive album, but diminishing returns. I really tried with The Astonishing, but had to give up - far too long with too little to hold my attention. Perhaps if they hadn't made such a big promotional deal about how LaBrie had stretched himself to perform in several different ranges to reflect each different character in the (childish) storyline?

    I perhaps expected too much, and came away feeling even more disenchanted with LaBrie as a singer. But, he is the the voice of DT, so if something has to give, then I guess it's me - choosing to follow other bands instead.

    But interestingly, I found myself listening to another double album concept by a metal band, which got panned at the time - Judas Priest's Nostradamus. I hadn't heard it for ages, and wondered if I'd make it through the first disc , and ended up enjoying the whole thing. The music might be a little more symphonic metal than Priest's harder sound but it worked well you could enjoy their distinctive guitar signatures. And Halford really stretches himself - not so much in hitting the high notes but changing his whole approach and pushing himself out of the metal zone and into something more operatic.

    And unlike DT, or even Maiden, Priest always seem to know instinctively when a riff or solo has run its course, and they keep each song tight and focussed.
     
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  2. craigobau

    craigobau Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, England
    Thanks for posting.

    This, and the other tracks released so far, remind me a lot of the band's sound on the Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence album which I think is great news.
     
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  3. ermylaw

    ermylaw Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Based on the three songs released so far, I think Dream Theater has won me back. Paralyzed is very, very good.
     
  4. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Solid tune. I'll need more listens to see if it grows on me.

    I agree that Octavarium has a great balance; I just wish the songwriting on the entire album was better. The title track is the only one I consider great. Every other song is good, but each has that little something that seems to hold it back (The Root doesn't quite nail the vocal hook, Never Enough has those terrible lyrics, Sacrificed Sons needed a better instrumental section, etc.).
     
  5. Claus

    Claus Senior Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Ocravarium is average, because the title track is DT’s „Shine on your crazy diamond.“ The song isn’t bad, but I don’t like this copy.
     
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  6. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    See, I don't see that at all. Sure, the opening atmospheric keyboard is almost the same, but the meat of the song is totally different.
     
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  7. ytserush

    ytserush Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast US
    Octavarium is a top 3 or 4 Dream Theater album for me. Tour was even better.
     
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  8. Scroller

    Scroller Hair Metal, Smooth Jazz, New Age...it's all good

    WARNING: My Highly Opinionated and Way Too Extensive Dream Theater Rant...
    (also known as: Not Really Saying Anything About DT That Hasn't Already Been Said... :D)

    Well, I never thought I'd warm up to the Mangini records but I have! He's a total monster on the drums. Love him! ADTOE, the self-titled and this new one sounds fantastic enough to me.

    Sometimes it's tough to pinpoint what the fans really want or expect from this band. Obviously, the thing that they do well, extremely well, is combine progressive rock with heavy metal. Not really anything I would call miraculous or groundbreaking but the thing is, because of their outrageous musicianship, they do it better than just about anybody else and they built their entire incredible career from this basic idea. I have nothing but respect and admiration for what they have achieved. So anyway, at this point, I'm not expecting them to reinvent the wheel nor do I really want them to! What's left for them to prove? Just give me more of what they do best (metal, prog, songs, musicianship, craftsmanship, etc.) and hopefully make subtle improvements in these areas with each successive record.

    I applaud their efforts when they make an attempt to do something off the beaten path, ie: the grandiosity of The Astonishing or experimenting with Portnoy on vocals, etc. but I did not particularly enjoy the results of these 2 examples. The Astonishing would have been fine as a Petrucci solo album. He obviously put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into it and I like the creative ambitions of it, but what astonishes me, pun intentional, is that everybody else in the band green-lighted that thing. I dunno, maybe someone could have spoken up and said, "Gee, I dunno John, we know Dream Theater is not necessarily known for holding back, but maybe this thing might be overblowing it just a tad...??" And don't get me started on the beyond goofy Portnoy vocals on Constant Motion, and the pseudo-aggressive rap/shouts he would do on some of those songs from SC and BC&SL. I could be way off, but it almost sounds as if he imposed/forced himself on the rest of the band... "Even though I'm not a singer, I'm going to add vocals on these songs dammit, whether the rest of you like it of not!" At any rate, the results of that did not resonate well with me at all. As always, mileage will vary on these points.

    These criticisms aside, I love Portnoy's drumming and song writing. That's doing PLENTY right there! And I do enjoy much of the musical ideas on The Astonishing. There's too many over-produced anthemic, choral/keyboard sections and interludes and it's easy to get distracted and disinterested while listening to it. When they get into a groove and the riffing and an actual song, I then appreciate that the record does indeed have some redeeming qualities.

    One thing I wish they would try to do is work with an outside, real honest to goodness producer. I get that they had some nightmare experiences with Prater in the past thus tarnishing their attitude about producers in general. At this stage of the game though, it's not like somebody would come in cracking a whip and try and force them to completely change their sound and approach. Seems absurd to even think that. They could carefully choose somebody who would hopefully gently guide them with suggestions and tweaks just enough so as to add to the finished product. You know, someone who they would respect and willingly accept opinions from.

    And lastly, the new 3 songs are excellent. What's not to like? Paralyzed is just over FOUR MINUTES LONG, are you kidding me?
     
    gja586 likes this.
  9. Claus

    Claus Senior Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Mike Mangini a monster? :biglaugh:
    A totally overrated robotic drummer... technically perfect, but without soul.
     
  10. Scroller

    Scroller Hair Metal, Smooth Jazz, New Age...it's all good

    Sorry, man. I hear a monster when he plays...
     
  11. Robber Soul

    Robber Soul Forum Resident

    Part of that problem would likely be because of Jordan's input in the project. Jordan was a key contributor with John on the music side of it.
    Mike is the new guy, so he wouldn't question anyone. John M. doesn't say anything period, so scratch him for doing so. The only one who may have stood up and questioned the project would be James. But I could see how he might have lavished the idea of participating because of all the vocal parts involved. He was likely more involved in The Astonishing than any other DT album prior.
     
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  12. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    I think this is a big reason why many, myself included, weren't bothered when Portnoy left the band. Yes, they did their best music when he was in the band, but the tight-fisted control he over the band was spilling over into the music, and the last two albums with him suffered a bit as a result.

    With Portnoy gone and a new drummer in, the balance was back and it looked and felt like a real band again.
    I think the difference between Portnoy and Mangini is in their approaches. While very good technically, Portnoy can be somewhat of a sloppy drummer, which gives his playing more of a loose, playful feel, while Mangini is always right on the money, which I get makes some think it is "too good," but to say his playing has no soul makes no sense to me whatsoever. He simply has a different approach. I personally prefer Portnoy's playing, as it is more fun to a non-musician like me and there were always plenty of air drum moments, but Mangini has done a more than fine job since joining the band, and the positives have outweighed the negatives, IMO.
     
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  13. ian christopher

    ian christopher Argentina (in Spirit)

    Location:
    El Centro
    Switch 6DOIT with FII and this is pretty much my list (I've yet to hear the Astonishing, that will change in the next few weeks).

    Also, why the dislike for Black Clouds but a like for Systematic - from my few listens to each, aren't the albums nearly identical in style/sound/performance?
     
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  14. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Sort of. Neither album is great (I consider them their two least best, and the lyrics weren't good on either), but while Black Clouds probably has better songwriting, it comes off as an album without a lot of personality; it is very much a DT by-the-numbers album. Systematic Chaos has this kind of cheesy horror film vibe, which is kind of charming and gives the record some personality, even if the songwriting is pretty lackluster at times. I rarely reach for either album anymore.
     
  15. plextor

    plextor Forum Resident

    So I've listened to the 3 songs on youtube with official videos, and they are not horrible but gees they are boring and hookless with little interest.

    I just have not been able to enjoy any of their new material since train of thought. Just generic paint by numbers prog metal, ZZZZZZZZZZZZ

    I'll give the album a chance but I don't have very high expectations.
     
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  16. plextor

    plextor Forum Resident

    That's the main problem with the entire band these days.
     
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  17. DrBeatle

    DrBeatle The Rock and Roll Chemist

    Location:
    Midwest via Boston
    That's been my biggest beef with him, and one of the reasons why I prefer MP's drumming. Better feel and he wasn't always so purely technical.

    The new cuts sound VERY good though...after the turd pile that was The Astonishing(ly awful last album), I'm actually fairly excited for the new one.
     
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  18. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    Sometimes things can be "too" perfect. It takes the humanity out of it. Sometimes Mike's drumming annoyed me, being kind of inappropriate for the song, but he was always fun. Mangini is a beast, but not that interesting, and I definitely agree it's soulless. Like, I feel like those drums could've been programmed and no one would be much the wiser. It's like the difference between Relayer Alan White and 90125 Alan White.

    I've really a lot of what Marco Minneman has played on the last several years, I kinda wish he'd got the DT gig, he's got all the chops and perfection of someone like Mangini, but with better groove/feel and lots of personality in his playing.

    I also think a band like DT is better off with multiple strong personalities. Going from 3 to 2 major contributors was a bigger deal than it seems on paper, IMO. I think about Yes, with Anderson, Squire and Howe/Rabin, or Genesis with Banks/Rutherford/Collins, and how different both bands were after replacing one of those three with a largely non-contributing (creatively) member. Occasionally you get an all-in-one prog mastermind like Neal Morse, but for the most part prog bands seem to be at their best the more collaborative they are.
     
  19. JCRW

    JCRW Forum Resident

    The bigger question is this... has Jordan Rudess learned how to setup a tasteful keyboard sound?
     
  20. plextor

    plextor Forum Resident

    If you were about to go to a Ringling brothers show before they closed up shop than yep.
     
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  21. agentalbert

    agentalbert Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    Amazon has no price listed on the artbook (2CD/dvd/blu) or the deluxe box set that I can see. I wonder why that is. The artbook is $49.43 at deepdiscount and they have a 15% coupon code for a few more days.

    I still think its overkill. No need for a DVD in addition to the blu-ray. If there were just a CD/blu-ray version for about $20-25 I'd get it no doubt. But near $50 for an album I don't even know if I like yet?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  22. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    I agree with a lot of this.

    I think the band has done Mangini a slight disservice with how his drums have sounded so far (too low in the mix on ADTOE, too drum sound-ish on the self-titled), but the new songs sound good in that regard, so I think they finally got it right.

    Also, I don't think DT went from 3 to 2 major contributors. Petrucci and Rudess have always been the main songwriters since Scenes. Portnoy by his own admission is not really a songwriter, but more of a jack of all trades guy. He was the guy who could say, "let's put that riff there," or "let's arrange the song this way," and those are important things, but he has never been a guy who can sit down by himself and write a whole song.
     
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  23. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    No, but when your compositions are as involved and complex as DT's, Portnoy acting in that capacity can have just as much of an impact as whoever actually wrote the riffs. (Not to mention his lyrical contributions). It's actually a little like Collins in Genesis...when they became a trio and started writing as a group around Abacab, I think Phil's role in many songs was less of a primary songwriter and more being someone who could sort out Tony and Mike's ideas and turn them into songs people would actually want to hear. Not to mention just having another strong personality to push back on weaker ideas and champion others. It's a far less defined role, but I think was equally important.

    Granted, the last few Portnoy DT albums were also disappointing, so it's not like there was a major quality difference when he left, but I just think what he contributed creatively to the band went significantly beyond just drumming and writing some lyrics, but it's difficult to quantify.

    The dynamic in progressive rock bands is so fascinating, and kind of under-discussed, since they're perhaps more collaborative creatively than most other forms of rock/pop music. Like, Lennon/McCartney songs are typically either Lennon or McCartney songs, but how do you end up with the end product of "Metropolis" or "Close To The Edge"? With all the egos in some bands, it's amazing some of those extended pieces even happened, let alone ended up being so incredible.
     
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  24. Adam Pajda

    Adam Pajda Forum Resident

    Location:
    Poland
    I know the album from the day it was released and never ever have I thought the title track sounds like "Shine on you crazy diamond". Why? Because of the slowly building opening section?
     
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  25. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    Their best album IMHO. The singer was incredible !!!
    I can't stand the voice of James LaBrie, so I stopped after the debut...
     
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