Drums on Pink Floyd's "Mother"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Rubberpigg, Jul 25, 2019.

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  1. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Who cares about popularity. Your answer was the truth.

    If Money were in 7/8 it'd have a very different feel.
     
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  2. MortSahlFan

    MortSahlFan Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Gilmour hired Porcaro because Nick can only play 4/4, blues, waltz... Same thing with "Two Suns In the Sunset"
     
  3. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    Please tell us more about what the person who didn't say the thing (the composer is Waters, and in the video he claims the riff is 7/8, not Gilmour) knows
     
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  4. zabble

    zabble Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I agree on that. I'm sure Nick could have wrapped his head around the time changes if given the chance and band had more time. From what I understand, CBS put a lot of pressure on them to finish the record early in time for Christmas sales, hence Porcaro coming in to help get the album done on time.
     
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  5. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Gently weeping guitarist.

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    Maybe none of them quite knew what to do, and the solution was freds ears (hence Jeff)
     
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  6. g.z.

    g.z. Senior Member

    :thumbsup: And Jeff always had some of the freshest ears around.
     
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  7. Sternodox

    Sternodox SubGenius Pope of Arkansas

    Yup. The great Jimmy Miller. Miller also played that world-famous cowbell on the opening to "Honky Tonk Women."
     
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  8. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    I am one for jokes. Just didn't find that one particularly funny is all. No worries, man. :righton:
     
  9. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    I can only comment on their amount of scholastic musical training, and that's zero. Understanding terminology regarding time signatures among other things comes from training in music theory. That's all I'm talking about. People pick up knowledge here and there when they play music, and haven't had formal training, and it may, or may not be correct. That said, what I've said means nothing regarding how good Pink Floyd are as musicians. Some of the greatest musicians in the world had no training.
     
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  10. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    It sounds better to me too. Because it's unconventional, while the finished version makes it sound simple.
    However, the Nick Mason version sounds unconventional not because Nick did something extraordinary, but because he really couldn't play at weird time signatures.
    This nice polyrhythmic version is a result of his inability.
     
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  11. BadJack

    BadJack doorman who always high-fives children of divorce

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I don't think that Waters ever sat down and said, "And now for a measure in 13/8!" I think he let the vocal melody dictate things and the technical stuff was worked out later. The same goes for Syd.
     
  12. dubious title

    dubious title Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario
    Sorry to strongly disagree, but Nick's approach works against the song. Mother is about the powerful lyric and the contrast between the beauty of the music and lyric. As much as the Wall was a difficult, unconventional album I think it was very much intended for great mass appeal.
     
  13. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Jeff regularly came up with very interesting drum parts which enhanced the song - there was a very good reason that he was in demand.

     
  14. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    But that's just what I said. It does work against the song and I like it better than the finished version with Jeff Porcaro.
    I just don't think it was Nick Mason's intention to play it that way. I believe he just kept playing in 4 because he didn't get what Roger wanted.
     
  15. dubious title

    dubious title Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario
    I should clarify then. Respectfully a drummer's playing on a song that's mainly about the lyric and is meant to convey emotion and beauty should most definitely not work against the song. That is a problem and was dealt with accordingly. Jeff's playing on this song is akin to art. Also as I said, I think Folyd wanted a blockbuster with this album, not songs where one would scratch their heads trying to figure out why a drum part sounds wrong.
     
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  16. g.z.

    g.z. Senior Member

    :pleased:

    You can dance to everything the dude played.
    That's very hard to say about a lot of players.
     
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  17. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    I truly believe that Nick Mason was capable of playing in weird time signatures whenever he was given enough time to practice them, which is not always the case when you're dealing with studio time and deadlines to finish the job.
    He played it in 7 on "Money" because he had the time to practice and rehearse it long before going to the studio to cut it. They had been playing it for months already.
    The same can't be said about "Mother" and "Two Suns In The Sunset". The easier choice was to have a virtuoso drummer instead. Nick Mason was never a virtuoso drummer.

    I like the Nick Mason "Mother" better than the Jeff Porcaro one. It doesn't mean, however, that Nick was a better drummer, but that his inbility to play what Roger Waters wanted resulted in something that sounds more interesting to my ears.
    Someone said his performance on it is a trainwreck. And it is a trainwreck indeed. I like me some musical chaos sometimes. I have a weird musical taste.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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  18. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    A couple of quotes from Roger and Dave.

    Jeff Porcaro from the band Toto ended up playing drums on the album version of “Mother” as Nick Mason was having trouble with the time signature changes. Waters recalled, “Nick, to his credit, had no great pretense about it. He just said, “I can’t play that.””

    David Gilmour talked about the song’s “somewhat elastic” timing:

    “On “Mother” the timing follows the words: “Mo-ther-do-you-think-they’ll-drop-the-bomb?” How many beats is that? Nine. It was very very difficult to get it to work. You can’t [mimes standard Floyd 4] — there’s no rhythm that carries on straight through like that. You’ve got to find a way of floating through it, which Jeff Porcaro did immediately.”
     
  19. g.z.

    g.z. Senior Member

    :thumbsup: I like it too. Just two different approaches.

    I consider it unique. :cool:
     
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  20. porieux

    porieux plook me now you savage rascal

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    This song should have been left off the album.
     
  21. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    Got it. Yeah, I totally agree. The Wall isn't Ummagumma. But I happen to like Nick's trainwreck drumming on it because, as I said, I like weird things even when they're not what the artist intended.

    Still, if I was in the producer's shoes, I would choose Jeff's version anyway.
     
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  22. BadJack

    BadJack doorman who always high-fives children of divorce

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    The Nick version is just a demo, right? Porcaro can play circles around him but still, Mason probably would have come up with something more appropriate if it was supposed to be a released song.
     
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  23. g.z.

    g.z. Senior Member

    ^This is great.
    :agree: Sums up the whole intent of the song for me.
     
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  24. penguinzzz

    penguinzzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlton, London
    Have a Cigar has similarly unequal bars in the intro and refrain. Mason drummed his way through that by learning where to add extra fills to cover the odd beats, and given time he could have done something similar in Mother as he later did in the concerts. It wouldn’t have been as accomplished as what Porcaro did but I’m sure he was capable.
     
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  25. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    [​IMG]
     
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