Drums on Pink Floyd's "Mother"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Rubberpigg, Jul 25, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Gently weeping guitarist.

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    Right on. If played by someone who did not know the piece it would come out in the right ballpark. Notate in 7/8 it would be full of 1/16th notes which would translate to a whole different feel.
     
    Gila and Randoms like this.
  2. Cool hand luke

    Cool hand luke There you go man, keep as cool as you can

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    because...??
     
  3. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Whether Money is in 7/1 7/2 7/3 7/4 7/5 7/6 7/7 7/8 or 7/googleplex, it sure as F is not in 5/anything.

    And yes it could be written as alternating measures of 4/4 and 3/4, but only if you wanted to make the life of anybody trying to play the thing from sheet music (not that anybody does this in Pink Floyd cover bands) much more difficult.
     
  4. Rubberpigg

    Rubberpigg Senior Member Thread Starter

    Interestingly, Capitol Records refused to license "Money" to Columbia Records in the United States for the 1981 compilation "A Collection of Great Dance Songs".
    So, David Gilmour re-recorded the song with producer James Guthrie.
    He did the vocals and played all the instruments except for the saxophone.
     
    tug_of_war and g.z. like this.
  5. WhoDaresWins

    WhoDaresWins Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Blastproof and tug_of_war like this.
  6. BadJack

    BadJack doorman who always high-fives children of divorce

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    tug_of_war likes this.
  7. drum_cas

    drum_cas Forum Resident

    I was thrilled to know that Jeff played on a Pink Floyd album, he is my drumhero. And I think he played in service of the song (probably wrong term, direct translated from Dutch expression) as does Nick, so it still sounds and feels Pink Floyd!
     
  8. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    What's the difference between swung eighths and swung sixteenths?

    Let's say I hand you a chart in 4/4, marked a quarter=100, and marked swing eighths.

    You have quarter, eighth-eighth, quarter eighth-eighth for one bar.


    Next I hand you a chart in 4/8, marked an eighth=100, and marked swing sixteenths.

    You have eighth, sixteenth-sixteenth, eighth, sixteenth-sixteenth for one bar.


    Do they sound different? If so, what would be the difference?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
  9. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    Location:
    los angeles
    At the point at which someone in a band determines that a song preexists in a form that precludes a band member playing that part, there is no band. Obviously excluding solo tracks, orchestra parts etc. But if you want a different bass player than the band's bass player it's not the band
     
  10. Cool hand luke

    Cool hand luke There you go man, keep as cool as you can

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Come again?
     
    lightbulb likes this.
  11. Cool hand luke

    Cool hand luke There you go man, keep as cool as you can

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I am quite sure there have been many MANY examples of our instrument-playing-heroes sitting a song or two out in the studio, when the decision has been made by the producer, the other band members, or even the player himself. It is not a big deal. If it's gonna help the song, to help the album, then it's the right thing to do. Although, at some point , it does become a question of who actually the band "is", sure, if the majority of the album is played by studio cats. But in this case, one song off a double album? This wasnt 1972 Pink Floyd, this was the hugely succesful 1979 Pink Floyd, at work on their biggest production yet. Nicky's having trouble getting a good groove on this number? Let's ring up Porcaro, he'll nail it. And what a beautiful drum part it was. If anyone, it's Rick Wright that we should be worrying about at that point. And has anyone looked at the roster of musicians playing on "A Momentary Lapse of Reason"? Oh by the way, which one's Pink?
    (Sorry to interrupt this thread on "what time signature Money is in")
     
    Bolero and Kim Olesen like this.
  12. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Gently weeping guitarist.

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    The feel is different. A drummer will interpret sixteen notes different, more funky (ala Roseanna) as opposed to 1/8 notes swing wgich will be seen as more blues/jazz feel.


    BUT as you said, only going by the math you can almost notate anything as anything. It is a question of being apropriate and notating in a way that wont be misunderstood. The chart posted by another user is apropriate for money. But since your credentials far exceed mine notate the same piece and the same parts in 7/8, and post them here. Should not take you long.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
    Gila likes this.
  13. Johnny Feathers

    Johnny Feathers Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I’m happy enough to concede it’s 7/4, not 7/8. My point was simply to point out the song is obviously in 7, not 5. Whether you’re counting quarter or eighth notes is otherwise largely irrelevant to the point being made, as far as I’m concerned. I’ll leave further arguments and posturing to those who feel so inclined.
     
    folkfreak likes this.
  14. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    If there's any audible difference in the two examples I explained, you'd be playing the chart wrong. It would indicate that you don't really understand the formal relationships of the notes and can't read well . . . which would result in not getting call-backs for gigs from a pro arranger for session work.

    If I gave you:

    Swing half notes, where a whole = 100, and you have whole half-half whole half-half
    Swing quarter notes, where a half = 100, and you have half quarter-quarter half quarter-quarter
    Swing eighth notes, where a quarter = 100, and you have quarter eighth-eighth quarter eighth-eighth
    Swing sixteenth notes, where an eighth = 100, and you have eighth sixteenth-sixteenth eighth sixteenth-sixteenth
    Swing thirty-second notes, where a sixteenth = 100, and you have sixteenth thirty-second-thirty-second sixteenth thirty-second-thirty-second

    They need to all be played exactly the same or you don't understand how to read music.
     
  15. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Gently weeping guitarist.

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    You could also notate it in 7/2 and have the tempo advisory as 200 bpm. But it would not be apropriate.

    Now off to a gig where i’ll spend 4 hours reading notation btw.

    Oh and that little personal dig about my profesional skills. Well done. This conversation ends here!
     
    Gila likes this.
  16. mando_dan

    mando_dan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Beverly, MA
    But it's so easy to blame the vile ol' meanie Roger Waters....
     
    BadJack and xfilian like this.
  17. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    I already pointed out that the bottom number is just a matter of how you want to think about/notate it. It makes no difference in the way it sounds. (And actually, this is even technically true re the top number, too, but at least in that case, there are conventions where it makes sense to insist that something is in 7.)

    The dig was because you're saying things that are clearly false, that indicate problems of familiarity with this stuff, and that amount to spreading misinformation.

    Didn't you do a lot of score study in school? You should have seen countless examples of time signatures, tempo designations, etc. that seem counterintuitive, especially from a pop-rock-jazz standpoint. That helps one understand the variability of notation relative to how things sound.
     
  18. drumzNspace

    drumzNspace Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Yuck City
    A lot of pedantic talk here. Not always where people are coming from in rock. So Waters stated 7/8 when 7/4 is actually correct. No need to tear down his educational knowledge or intelligence or anyone else’s. The idea is it’s in 7, and if someone misstates it as 7/8 it’s probably due to its swing/triple feel. I.e., they really kind of mean 21/8, or, 3 bars of 6/8 and an extra 3/8. Or a 2 bars of 6/8 and a 9/8.
     
    Gila and Kim Olesen like this.
  19. Cool hand luke

    Cool hand luke There you go man, keep as cool as you can

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    And I'm here to discuss who played drums on Mother and why. Not listen to a bunch of know-it-alls have a p****ng contest over who knows music theory better and what time signature Money is in. :hurl::hurlleft:
     
    Bolero, utopiarun and xfilian like this.
  20. It was easier and, given that Roger was not a nice guy around this time, it's possible he didn't like what Nick did or felt Jeff would be a better choice. Let's remember he also replaced him on a track for "The Final Cut" as well.

    Obvious David and Bob Erzin agreed because they co-produced the album and I'm sure they had a say or they went along with it. Heck, it could have been one of them who suggested it (my guess is it was Erzin).
    "The affair was given more credence, however, with Toto drummer Jeff Porcaro being brought in to play on Mother. “It’s got 5/4 bars in it,” Waters said. “Nick, to his credit, has no pretence about that. It was quite clear he couldn’t play it.”

    “If something’s right for a track and I can’t do it, then so be it,” the ever-affable Mason agreed. Of any possible sacking, he added: “I probably realised there might have been a sense of, ‘Hang on, why don’t we..."

    Pink Floyd's The Wall: The secrets behind 1980's best-selling album
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
    g.z. likes this.
  21. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    I recall reading that Gilmour said Porcaro was his favorite drummer and had him play on About Face. Waters also said he was proud to have one of Porcaro's last recordings on Amused To Death.
     
    drum_cas and g.z. like this.
  22. trusso

    trusso Forum Resident

    Ringo plays 4/4 time over the 3/4 time in Happiness is a Warm Gun. Its works better in that song. Sounds like a big mess here. Then again, the entire song is a mess. The solo is in tact though. No desire to ever listen to this version again.
     
    l-l-d and CrombyMouse like this.
  23. drumzNspace

    drumzNspace Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Yuck City
  24. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Gently weeping guitarist.

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    Spot on. Even Gilmour had Lee Ritenour (if my memory serves me correct) help out on One Of My Turns because he was in kind if the same problem. Being at a loss for the right part. It’s no biggie. Or rather, it is only a problem for a band, if the members decides to make a problem of it.

    Though, and with the prefix that i really love that album, for me AMLOR is bordering on not being a band album
     
    Cool hand luke likes this.
  25. 24voltsdc

    24voltsdc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    Jeff could "sail" through anything. He was one of the best of all time.
     
    g.z. likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine