Dual 1229 for $175. Too good to be true?

My dad showed me a Dual 1229 turntable for sale on a Facebook page, only had basic info and pics, and only had a price of $175. Is it worth it? And if so, would it provide better quality than my Technics, or, if not working, be astronomically expensive to fix?

 

That sounds like a fair price. I'd pay more with a dust cover in nice condition or with a good cartridge on it, like a Shure V15. Dual 1229 turntables are a little complicated but not all that expensive to fix. There is one well known site - fixmydual.com - where you can send it in for a fixed-price rebuild, but he's mostly out of commission right now. I've even worked on my own 1229, with some help from forums.

 

The 1229 os a great sounding turntable, many came with a Shure V-15 cartridge. The downside of the Dual 1229 and other 1200 series models, they require servicing. Common points that need attention, potential flat spots on the idler wheel (wow and flutter problem) old hardened grease and seized up speed control and stop switch, failure of the arm to return to rest, or auto stop does not work at all. The headshell contact points often need cleaning and mico-polishing, the mute contacts sometimes fail.

Repair is costly, not cheap. Proper service requires significant disassembly, complete removal of old grease, cleaned and relubed with the correct lubricants. The unusual part with a "funny" name, the steuerpimpel should be replaced and NOT lubricated (techs who lubricate this part wonder why the arm does not return to rest) Certain parts are not to be lubricated to function reliably. The Duals are complex machines. I have serviced them, but not open for business at this time.. very sorry.

If you are mechanically inclined, the rebuild will be time consuming the first time around, if not challenging. You will need a service manual. All the You Tube tutorials are novices teaching novices, a few are ok, others horrible! Refer to the service manual !!! DO NOT USE white grease as some suggest this, just don't unless you anticipate another rebuild within the next 5 to 10 years. It is ok to use upgraded non-hardening chassis grease in place of the original grease where indicated by the service manual. All parts which require no lube should be completely grease free, cleaned with naptha and air dried. Be fussy, work clean, your turntable will run beautifully.

If the idler wheel is concentric and compliant, the minimal service is removal of the glaze... note the idler wheel tire is slightly radiused, not flat. Do NOT attempt to turn on a lathe to resurface (or sand) flat... your pitch will be unstable, and will soon cut a groove on the motor pulley. The idler wheel and all drive surfaces MUST be cleaned with naptha or denatured alcohol. (Isopropyl alcohol is not a degreaser)

It's a good idea to service the motor, clean and oil. The motor is robust so, even if left alone should provide long service life. If the silicone rubber isolators are dry and hardened, they need to be replaced, however these are usually supple in my experience.

Key service points:
1) Idler wheel, flat spots, or glaze, or oil contamination
2) Speed control seized or stiff
3) start/stop selector seized or stiff
4) headshell/ arm contacts oxidized (clean with micro-polish, no deoxit chemicals on this)
5) mute contacts oxidized
6) arm trip pawl seized or stiff
7) anti-skate cam cracked
8) steuerpimpel missing or has oil on it (no oil on this part and mating surfaces)
9) platter roller bearing removed and sprayed with brake kleen or electronics contact cleaner, force air dried, light machine oil (such as 3 in 1 or per service manual)
The platter sleeve bearing likewise cleaned and re-oiled
10) general clean and re-grease points

I begin by overall cosmetic cleanup, any dust, gum and resin removed from the deck, platter and arm.
Then I proceed with the refurb job... Most you tube tutorials begin on the dirty turntable... drives me nuts,

Most Dual 1229's previously serviced, have been serviced improperly. These are complex and wonderfully engineered machines, just a few points mentioned as you can see.
If you decide to purchase at $175.00 that's a good deal IMO, if a clean unmolested piece.
Good luck on the refurb,
Steve VK

 

The listing says "Perfect Condition" but I asked the lovely question of "Is everything in working order?" It comes with the dust cover, thank goodness. Hopefully I'll get a good answer.

 

UPDATE It appears to have some kind of Shure cart on it from what I can tell. Really thinking about purchasing it, despite already owning a Technics. I'll still definitely use it, I bet it'll give it a run for its money.

 

I have three Duals in use. 1019, 1229, and 701. I bought all three over the years from Bill at fixmydual.com so they were restored to new condition when I bought them. I love all three of them but there are plenty of moving parts so condition is everything on used Duals.

 

Jump on it!
I love my 1229. They have a lot of personality. When working good, it's a pleasure to use.
They do, however, as already stated need a little extra love after a few years. But nothing you can't handle with help from the experts on Vinyl Engine.

I bought mine for $100 without a dustcover. It came with a nice Shure M75 on it, which is a great cart. I've probably got around $350 in mine as it sits with a custom dust cover, extra cartridge sleds, new feet and new styli.

 

Great turntable, well worth $175 if it works and is in good condition.

If you get it and don't want to do the cumbersome servicing yourself, at some point you may want to send it to fixmydual.com. For $150 or so it'll be gone over carefully and serviced.

 

I bought a Dual 1229 here at the Forum last winter for $300 that had been fully serviced at fixmydual.com, and came with dust cover and cartridge/stylus. Totally worth it to me....I got my money's worth.

 

fixmydual.com appears to be the only legit refurbisher of Duals. Lots of great comments about them, no complaints that I know of. The vast majority of novice techs get them working, but not working properly, and not up to spec. Improperly restored, there is also a reliability risk, very high risk of future malfunction. One common error I cited is white grease, that so many techs seem to "swear by" just shaking my head as white lithium grease hardens very quickly.

Many, many Duals are still out there, and clean unrestored pieces, which "as is" will never operate properly.... clean has potential and definitely to look for and buy, but never, never fully operational, not after 40+ years. I'm mindful of starting up a turntable refurb operation, but .. the value of these vintage pieces DO NOT REFLECT a fully operational, restored to spec turntable, as if purchased brand new. The qualified people make no money at this, the value of Duals does not justify the effort. Love is the only motivation; It's a cryin shame! The "back yard hacks" as I hatefully classify them (nice people but please find another hobby) delusional of their own skills, and advertise fully operational but they are not. Back in the early 2000's I purchased two, and a Revox G36 reel to reel from said restorers, (said to be a former Revox tech) I really preferred not to get into restoring anything myself as I was still at IBM, and had not the extra time. Guess what? None of them were right, clean, very nice, but effed up! I ended up doing it myself anyway.

Trying to keep it positive, but reality stares back

 

South Street Service also specializes in Dual. I had good luck with them in past.

 

South Street Service - Turntable Parts, Turntable Service, and Turntable Repair

Forgot the link.

 

Ahem. I had several very negative experiences with Fix My Dual, which I will not detail here or else the pitchforks will come out; it appears that my bad experiences were not typical. Nevertheless, I was not impressed with his work and cannot recommend him.

I can highly recommend a fellow in Brooklyn, NY who has the online handle of "No Transistors" (on AudioKarma, etc.). He specializes in rebuilding Duals and has worked on both a 1019 and 1219 for me, and his work was very meticulous. I can provide his contact info by request.*

Another expert is Doctor Dual in Ontario, Canada. I currently have a 1019 that he refurbished, and his work is excellent. Unfortunately the cross-border shipping costs may be prohibitive.

*(I am leaving for vacation on Sunday, so I may be slow to respond.)

 

No Transistors does indeed get high praise and well deserved from everything that I have read. I have never sent a Dual to fixmydual.com for repair but the refurbished ones that I have bought from Bill work great.

 

Maybe I will get flamed but I rarely see AR XA's and XB's recommended. They are capable if basic turntables. They perform very well with very little to go wrong. The tonearm certainly is crude but gets the job done. The tonearm was often equipped with a Shure V15 as well as the Shure M91's or whatever was popular.

 

I am purchasing the turntable today, couldn't tell if it's an Ortofon or Shure cart, it kinda resembles having the font of 1980s Ortofon carts, but I'm not sure. I'll update y'all in the next couple of days.

 

The AR arm is simple, but it's not crude. There is some very solid engineering in there, Ed Villchur knew exactly what he was doing. The AR-XA was designed and built to maintain a low price point, so some corners were cut.

There is a guy in Columbus, OH named Marc Morin who specializes in rebuilding and upgrading AR turntables. Basically he takes Villchur's original design concept and brings it up to modern performance levels. I own a '64 AR-TX that Marc rebuilt, and it looks bone stock on the outside, but is extensively hot rodded under the hood:

• jeweled arm pivot bearings
• micropolished arm and platter bearings/thrust pads (virtually friction-free)
• mass-loaded T-bar and pulley
• heavy duty Linn springs (needed to support the additional weight of the suspension)
• internally dampened arm tube
• Full rewiring of arm and upgraded interconnects


I would seriously put my AR up against any new turntable retailing for up to $2k. My "finicky" Grado tracks flawlessly on this arm without breaking a sweat.

 

Yes! my first turntable was the AR. Mine came with a Shure M91 ED, upgraded a year later to a Grado F3E+ (advertised for Quadraphonic use) This very retro looking and basic turntable and performed well for me.

The AR has a few important performance points worth considering.
1) Outstanding feedback isolation, tight bass, wonderful fidelity from my records with the volume turned up!
2) Outstanding isolation from footfalls, I threw a house party at my apt, music provided by my system. The floor moved, so did my bookshelf system. The AR platter bounced more than visibly, never skipped once! The subplatter suspension varies, as my current AR (not my original) has higher rate springs and a higher frequency bounce., not as immune to footfalls. My original bounced at about 2x/ sec... very slowly.
3) A good sounding turntable, low rumble, good speed accuracy, great tracking
4) Ease of handling, the headshell facilitates ease of manual operation, thoughtful design lacking in most other headshell design. The AR headshell handle cradles the finger with ample space UNDER, why other manufacturers have not adapted this I consider one of the enigmas of turntable design.

The the arm pivot points are one of the design weaknesses, as the orig plastic inserts can be damaged by overtightening the adjustment screws. (which will bind the arm.. common sense that something is too tight, and that specific set up instructions were ignored) The bearing surfaces are sufficient, however light micro-polish should assist in reduction of metal to metal contact and increase oil film strength, and should help to keep the bearing surfaces apart. Under normal operation, the stock platter bearing surfaces should not make direct contact.

The AR lacks antiskate bias, definitely a point of criticism. Anti-skate upgrade kits are available for the AR. The consequences are cantilever/suspension fatigue, eventual stylus lean. Some styli may not like no anti-skate bias. My Shure and Grado tracked nicely, my records sounded great, only minimal IGD on the most demanding tracks otherwise none at all.

Steve VK

 

I bought a XA in 73 new for 90 dollars and a then newly released V-15 III for 75 dollars. Outstanding set up IMO. I still have an XB in the closet.

 

Well, I got the turntable today. The build quality is insane. However, it needs a lot of TLC. The motor is wonky, as I am barely able to get it to spin, I can't change the speed, and the pitch control is all over the place. Two of the legs are broken off, and it's missing the spindle. However, it has a vintage Shure Hi-Track cart on it, but I'm not sure which model number it is. I'll find some kind of way to post pictures of it soon.

 

DO NOT FORCE ANYTHING.

Spindles are readily available on eBay.

If you are handy, here is a guide to serving it:
https://www.commentreparer.com/img/doc/id/10232/DUAL-1219.pdf

I will also PM you the contact info of my repair guy in Brooklyn.

 

Ouch.

The listing said "perfect condition", yet it arrived in this condition?!? Was it damaged in shipping, or did the seller misrepresent the condition?

 

I believe they misrepresented it. I think they needed the money desperately, so if it helps them out, I'm all for spending some money on getting it fixed up.

 

I guess it was too good to be true. It can be fixed up and it will be as good as new.

 

That's a really gracious gesture on your part. Here's hoping that you catch a break with the repairs, and enjoy the turntable for a long time to come.