Dumb Question about Mono Vinyl Playback

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by teaser5, Mar 11, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    fwiw check the earlier threads on this. if i remember correctly(and steve, please chime in here if i'm all wet) he has insisted that it makes very little, if any, difference on the cable that you use for this. and in fact, he has said that it's a waste of $$ to get anything other than the most basic of cables. now again, i'm paraphrasing, and could be mistaken. but that was my understanding. and i'm a pretty big tweaker...


     
  2. PMC7027

    PMC7027 Forum Hall Of Fame

    I remember Steve saying this, and I don't understand it. A chain is only as good as its weakest link, isn't it? If cable makes a difference, the cable used for the double Y should also make a difference. I certainly understand that the gain is sound quality due to the double Y (reduction in record noise) may outweigh the loss in sound quality due to the crappy cable, but why not try to get a double Y made out of good cable?

    If I have anything to report based on the second e-mail I sent to Grover I'll post it (if it is OK with him).
     
  3. d.r.cook

    d.r.cook Senior Member

    when I can't sleep nights, I've found a sedative works wonders!

    doug :p
     
  4. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    I agree with PMC7027, based on my listening tests, to a point...using relatively inexpensive gold plated Radio Shack Y connectors and a cheap switch box (to try and avoid having to unhook and rehook) I found a huge drop off in signal going from my table to my amp and also when in the stereo bypass mode, stereo imaging went to hell for some reason. I can't put a switch easily between amp and preamp because I have an integrated.

    However, with just the double Y connectors, I notice no decrement in sound and actually all the improvements in mono playback noted earlier. So I concluded that the Y adapters, even if they are in theory weakest links in the chain, don't hurt -the benefits exceed the theoretical drawbacks. The cheap switch box on the other hand was a debacle and it's now gone for good.

    Probably high-end Y connectors would sound even better, but may not be worth it depending on your own personal incremental cost per sonic improvement standard!
     
  5. PMC7027

    PMC7027 Forum Hall Of Fame

    I've been in contact with Grover again and hope to work something out about him making the double Y cord. Stay tuned...
     
  6. Kyhl

    Kyhl On break

    Location:
    Savage
    He could probably cut some cost by building it into one unit and shorting the correct wires, rather than using the three sets of RCA's required for the two piece unit. Still, I would imagine it would cost at least as much as a short set of IC's.
     
  7. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    So last weekend my father brought his DRX Retro up and we put it in my tape loop, and I have to say I am now a believer. This unit added NO hum or noise of any kind and there was no decrement in signal quality as I'd experienced with my cheap DIY switcher. It is SO convenient to have the ability to flip a switch for ideal mono listening...and lately I find myself listening almost 50/50 to mono and stereo records, so it's not insignificant having to hook/unhook the Y adapter so much, a real hassle and already I'm feeling some loosening in the phono inputs on the back of my amp related to repeated plugging/unplugging.

    So even though a bit pricey, I have ordered my own DRX Retro and can't wait until it arrives. Recommended!
     
  8. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    i just got one of these and i'm a little confused about a couple of things. first, the connections. i don't use a tape recorder, so how would i hook it up to my preamp? in addition to tape in/out connections, it also has regular output/input. i assume i use both in tandem with my pre's out/in's, but i'd appreciate confirmation. also, this allows you to play either a lateral or vertical mono mix. other than going by what sounds right, what would one normally use.

    thanks.
     
  9. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    never mind, i think i just got it. it goes between my phono pre and my pre.

    as far as vertical/lateral, on a brubeck 6 eye, when i hit vertical, i got almost no sound, but lateral was right on. i assume this is due to how the record was originally cut? any additional help on this would be appreciated.
     
  10. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Senior Member

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    Yes, you are right, it must go between the phono amp and the pre amp because in the retro they did not shield the ground wires and if you put it between the TT and phono amp you will get too much hum. I have a test record that has some grooves the a vertical modulation and other grooves that are lateral modulation so records are cut both ways. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about record cutting can comment.
     
  11. vanmeterannie

    vanmeterannie Forum Resident

    It's pretty simple; mono records are cut totally lateral (if you want to visualize head on, then it'd be left to right) and stereo records are a combination of lateral and vertical rotated 45 degrees so that mono records would be compatible with stereo (if they didn't rotate 45 degrees, the mono signal would have only come out of one speaker) and to keep rouge cutting energy in check that might eat through the base on the lathe if it were actually moving straight up and down.

    Some very old records are cut vertically, but there are relatively few.
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Edison Diamond Discs and the old World Broadcasting "covers" of the Decca 1940's material were vertical cuts.

    No surface noise whatsoever! A neat concept that never caught on (sorry to say).
     
  13. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    Yes Steve, my dad has an Edison player and some Diamond Discs (they were 80 rpm) and they are definitely sonically superior to the more common 78s of the era (he has some Victor machines and lots of 78s too)...very good sound quality and even those with visible deep, deep scratches play without clicking/jumping due to the cutting method.

    Diamond Discs also could allow up to around 5 minutes of play each side (a good couple minutes more than with 78s).

    Here's a nice link on Edison players/Diamond Discs

    Just proves that throughout history, superior sonics and musical value have often been trumped by marketing prowess!
     
  14. 4_everyman

    4_everyman The Sexual Intellectual

    Location:
    Gillette, Wyoming
    The name BOSE comes to mind... :rolleyes:
     
  15. jeendicott

    jeendicott Senior Member

    I called up KAB this morning and spoke to the guy who makes these. Looks like those of us who do not have one are out of luck, as he can no longer get the switches.

    He is going to try to find a way to start making them again, but I guess I'll need to make do with the dual splitter method, at least for a few months. Does anyone know if it's bad for equipment to switch these out with it playing? Seems a drag to shut down my tube preamp and turn it back on every time I want to go mono ----> stereo.
     
  16. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    i got mine from http://www.garage-a-records.com/. they still list it on their site under the "preamplifiers & electronics(all)" category. it's listed under "vintage audio director". good people to deal with also.
     
  17. jeendicott

    jeendicott Senior Member

    Thanks. I'm pretty sure I called these folks yesterday and they were out of them. I went ahead and ordered one on the web anyway--worst-case it gets cancelled, or maybe they'll dig up one more. I figure my odds aren't any worse than they were for those Amazon gold DCCs. :D

    The lady I spoke to there did sound pretty nice.
     
  18. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    Garage-A-Records is a nice outfit, great service. I have ordered a couple items there and they are very well packaged and generally delivered in a matter of a couple days. Hope everyone who's looking for one is able to get the KAB Retro, when I spoke with the guy at KAB a while back he only mentioned that the Junior had gone out of production and made it sound like the Retro would go on. Bummer.
     
  19. jeendicott

    jeendicott Senior Member

    No go with Garage-A-Records. She left a very apologetic message on my answering machine and said to check back in a couple of months. Obviously there is a demand for these things, so here's hoping.
     
  20. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    wow! i must have gotten one of last ones...sorry to hear. it really is a nice little unit.
     
  21. jeendicott

    jeendicott Senior Member

    Okay, then; next question. If I'm stuck with the double-Y solution for a while, is it safe to add/remove the cable into the chain with the turntable, phono preamp, preamp and amp running? I hate to turn off the tube preamp off and right back on, but I don't want to fry my electronics, either. Granted, this hasn't happened yet, but I do hear an unsettling "pop".
     
  22. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Senior Member

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    John, It is my recommendation that you do NOT change the Y cables live (or hot). Pulling cables live in a phono circuit can cause very loud hum that could damage your speakers. The strategy I use is to plan my listening sequence. I do this with mono versus stereo and thick versus thin records. I listen to all mono, then shut down and switch to stereo. The thick thin thing is to cut down on VTA adjustments. :)
     
  23. jeendicott

    jeendicott Senior Member

    Rats. I was afraid that would be the answer. Luckily, I don't (can't, with a Rega) adjust VTA, or that would further cramp my sonic spontaneity.

    Thanks for the ad-vice. :) Now I really hope KAB finds the switches for more Retro units soon.
     
  24. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    i never had a problem removing the y cord from my dynavector p75 phono with it and everything else on. i did turn down the volume on my amp all the way. maybe i was wrong, but no harm on my stuff.
     
  25. mambo

    mambo New Member

    Location:
    Spain
    Same here. I just turn the volume down
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine