Dumb Question about Mono Vinyl Playback

David, have you heard from Grover yet?

 

I've been in touch with him but there isn't anything I can say at the moment. He has been on vacation recently and is a VERY busy man.

 

I haven't forgotten this thread. I'll post information as soon as I can.

 

I finally got around to doing this very thing yesterday and what a difference it makes.

Spun nuttin' but mono LP's the rest of the day. Dylan's Blonde on Blonde, Chet Atkins, Herb Alpert & the TJB.

 

Any news yet regarding the possibility of a Grover double Y adapter ? I ask because I just heard from another cable manufacturer called XLO. They sell Y adapters at $500 (US) each. Would you believe it ? (This is for their 'Signature' series adapters, in case you're wondering.)

I have two pairs of Radio Shack-type adapters here, but they're not quiet. Perfect for playback in my listening room, but not for vinyl transfers. I'm looking for quiet adapters. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Grover was unable, due to other commitments, to make a double Y cord for me. I actually just ordered a set of cords made by Monster (no comments about Noel Lee, please) for just under $30, including shipping.

 

I'm assuming your 'everyday' (ie. non-mono) interconnects are already the expensive and/or good kind? Just do your transfers in stereo and then sum to mono in the digital domain, if that is a possibility with whichever gear you might be using.

That way you could also use one channel or the other, or a non-50/50 mix of both, .. quite nifty with used LPs where one channel's more worn than the other, for example.

 

I wonder if one shouldn't exercise caution here. Most of the mono vinyl discs now in existence, unless they were manufactured before the stereo era, are actually made from masters cut using stereo cutting heads with identical mono signal in each channel, I think. So trackability and wear might be better if you used a stereo v-shaped stylus on these rather than a true mono cartridge/stylus. In other words, true mono pickups for true mono cut records only. Even if it's safe otherwise, I believe that is the only case where you would hear a difference.

Also, I can understand the noise reduction by not running it stereo, but on a mono record, why not just use a single y-connector and send one channel's signal to both inputs of the amp? What's the significance of using both channels and a double Y setup if it's already mono? I have a premp switch that allows me to do that, so I don't have to fiddle with plugging and unplugging.

 

Yes, you're right. I could always transfer in stereo and choose one channel afterwards.

 

Well, after "striking out" with Grover I finally got my double Y cord setup. I purchased the following Monster Cable items:

Monster Cable IHP Y-1F Altra High performance Audio Y-Adaptor (2 Males to 1 Female)

Monster Cable IHP Y-2F Altra High performance Audio Y-Adaptor (1 Male to 2 Females)

I was able to purchase both of them for a total of $29.90 (free shipping) from www.wildwestelectronics.com.

I installed the cords between my ET-II tonearm and a pair of Grover Mk. 3s.

I received the cords in the mail on Tuesday and so far have only listened to side 1 of the Classic Records 180 gram mono pressing of Axis: Bold As Love. All I can say is WOW!

The music was locked into the phantom center image and emerged from a TOTALLY silent background. I can't wait to listen to side 2, then the other Classic mono titles I have, which include a couple of Roy Orbisons and The Who's My Generation.

I was very leerly of putting cheap Radio Shack cables in my system. These Monster Cables, forgetting about the problems some of us have with the way the company does business, are great! I highly recommend them!

The photo is of the 1 female to 2 Male cable.

 

I also "upgraded" from the RS Y-adaptors to the Monsters. I definitely hear an improvement especially in bass detail. I played Classic's Axis last night and was blown away also.

 

I really found that it all snapped into focus - and the noise floor dropped - when I wired a stereo cartridge for mono by taking the L+ from the cartridge to the L+ on the headshell, and the R- on the cartridge to the L- on the headshell, and then tied the other two pins together with short wire. I read about this about two years ago and tried it on a whim, and now have dedicated cartridges set up like this. It's not a pure mono cartridge, but it seems to work somewhat better than a Y cord. But please understand, this is just my opinion.

Also, as I learned here, mono discs cut with stereo stylus don't have grooves different than actual mono discs...I too thought that there would be vertical movement, but after I thought about it I think I understand how it works (again, I think). Since the two channels don't both have their + components at the same end of the poles in the cartridge, if you cut a mono signal with a stereo cutter you get essentially only lateral information...but that's totally based around having a true mono signal, of course.

 

I just happened to find the first records in my collection today that do this "swishing" thing...the vinyl edition of Mosaic's COMPLETE BLUE NOTE HERBIE NICHOLS RECORDINGS. In getting ready to do needle drops I did my usual summing of A+B channels using my preamp mono switch and all of a sudden all the highs dropped out - muffle city - and there was that odd phasing sound on the (murky) cymbals. The records sound much better with the stereo setting - excellent in fact, the highs return, no phasing - although without the usual deadcenter mono imaging I'm used to with using the mono switch. Oh well.

This Mosaic pressing of this vintage BN Herbie Nichols material was cut by none other than Rudy Van Gelder himself! I would have thought he of all people would have taken pains to do it the right way...or could something else weird in the production chain be at play? Some anomaly in the original (mid-50s) master tapes?

 

Choose the best sounding channel and paste it onto the other one - same signal on both, centered mono image, no phasey-sounding highs.

 

Then all you have to do is NO-NOISE it!!

 

I have been using the double-y technique ever since I learned about it here on SH a year or so ago. I always use it for mono listening and needle drops and am very happy with this solution.

However, a couple of months ago I bought a 'mono' cartridge, a Denon DL-102 for roughly $150 new and have to say, with a caveat, that it is a great audio bargain.

Here's some info on it:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/murraya/DenonMonoPage.htm

The DL-102 is a great answer for those of us who have mono lps that

1. aren't in the best shape
or
2. weren't recorded that well to begin with
or
3. both 1 and 2

I also use a Shure V15xMR and love it. For mono albums that are in better shape and were recorded well, this and a double-y is the way I go.

On some other records, the Denon really 'cleaned' things up. In particular, I have this 1961 lp by the (UK) Outlaws, a Joe Meek produced instrumental record titled "Dream of The West" -- kind of a Duane Eddy/Tornados hybrid with some C&W accents. I love it. Anyway, the copy I have here with me in Japan looks close to NM, but has quite a bit of surface noise probably due to having been played on crappy turntables back in the day. I did a needledrop, but the Shure isn't very forgiving of the surface noise and the drop just didn't come out in a way I could enjoy. The Denon, however, did wonders on it -- night and day. It has also done magic on some 50s Fats Domino and Ray Charles lps I have that are only in VG+ or so.

The Denon tracks heavy -- 3 grams. It's also a huge sucker--not right for a lot of tonearms. Also, it's a hassle to hook up with only two poles/posts. But for what it does and the price it does it (also, it's designed to be safe on a modern, stereo record), it is a great little item. Bear in mind, it's not the detailed, smooth performer the Shure is. Some detail gets buried on the Denon -- but, like with a Joe Meek or a less-than-super recorded 50s record (where there might not be a lot of detail there to begin with) -- it can bring a somewhat crappy sounding record up to nice sounding. Bear in mind though, it IS detailed for a buget level cart. It can't transform a thrashed Poor or Good condition lp into something nice. But, as a guestimate, I believe it can take something in decent shape up a grade. It's also high output and will bring out a lot more punch than the Shure will. But you'll need to be careful with your preamp or step-ups...

Dale

 

Are you sure this is correct as typed, it does not seem symmetric.

 

sheesh this kicks butt! I've had this rubber soul mono for a few months. I've been trying to get a needle drop to sound decent. I tried polishing this turd with adobe audition declicker etc. I just about gave up on this album. Used the double y and presto sounds great. truly amazed. Thanks a lot.

I'm going to needle drop some sundazed Dylan next.

 

Good Lord.
This thread is over a year old and running strong.
And I thought it was a dumb question...

Peace-
Norm

 

I love my DL-102, think it's one of the best bargains in audio if you have (or want to have) a large number of mono LPs in less-than-mint condition. It does amazing things with them. As I always like to say, it has transformed my record-buying habits. Any mono thrift-store disc that's at least a VG is worth a stab. Unless it was played 1000 times on a ceramic cart with a chipped needle, it'll probably be an enjoyable listen.

 

Steve, this does not work with the two Rega turntables I've owned. I have tried the double Y connector cables a few times over the years with a Rega P3 and an older Rega Planer 3 turntable. You get major hum hooking the left and right outputs to a double Y connector cable.

I've been told it has something to do with the ground wire being built in to the right and left outputs of the turntable. On other brands of turntables the ground wire is separate.

Never had this problem with my Thorens or Technics turntables.

 

Perhaps someone else has already asked you this before. I did not want to read every posting on this thread.

Your LP has a catalog number that looks like a catalog number for Japanese pressings of Verve records from the 80's.

If so, the vinyl should be very clean and quiet. I don't think you necessarily need to turn on your mono switch for this.

Also, I have found most UMV's to sound "veiled" with a small sound stage. It is one of the few Japanese pressings of 50's and 60's Jazz that I avoid. Anyone have similar experiences?

Sung

 

It puts a smile on my face when I think about all the threads on 5.1 out there and here is a thread on playing mono vinyl that has been goin on for a year.