Dunkirk (forthcoming in 2017)

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by townsend, Aug 6, 2016.

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  1. White_Noise

    White_Noise Forum Resident

    Location:
    Templeton, MA
    At least this film shows that there is significant interest/demand in non-American centered war films. I'm saddened by the lack of AAA WW2 films that focus on the Eastern Front - ya know, the bloodiest theater of the war by a long shot. And there are so few classic WW1 films I can count them on two hands - most of which were produced between 1930-1959.

    A modern film about Verdun, Somme, Ypre, would make the opening of SPR or the last half of Hacksaw Ridge look like Sesame Street.

    Downfall is my favorite German war film and possibly my favorite WW2 film in general. I'd love to see a film that begins with the militarization of the Rhine and ends with the push through the Ardennes, devoting sections to the rapid invasions of Denmark, Norway, etc. The political drama alone would be unparalleled.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  2. Yovra

    Yovra Collector of Beatles Threads

    Why not start with Band of Brothers? I found the episode about the battle in Bastogne (the constant pounding of artillery shells) very impressive! A political drama series around Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin (something better than "When Lions Roared") with not only their meetings but also the plotting an politics behind the screens would be great. But again; a series would be better than a movie...
     
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  3. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
  4. GeoffC

    GeoffC Forum Resident

    Took my 84 year old Dad, and 26 year old son to see Dunkirk yesterday, and we all really enjoyed and liked it.

    My Dad is usually very critical of anything he doesn't like or approve of (a family trait!) but he had nothing negative to say and only had positives - which for someone who had lived through air raids and "Real Time 2nd World War News" was quite something. Even the sound/music wasn't a problem for him - he has no hearing problems at all (he still plays his old LP's!). We all thought the way repeat views of the same events in different timelines was a good way of showing the impact on different people. We didn't want it to be like SPR or any other war movie, and we did have empathy with the participants of Dunkirk which I think was the whole style and point of the film.
     
  5. White_Noise

    White_Noise Forum Resident

    Location:
    Templeton, MA
    Band of Brothers is the finest WW2 cinematic project outside of The World at War. The writing, direction, and cinematography are without the slightest rebuke. Too bad the Pacific wasn't quite as well done. I'd love to see a Band of Brothers esque miniseries from the German perspective of WW1. similar to Generation War.
     
  6. JQW

    JQW Forum Resident

    As mentioned earlier, there's over 50 airworthy Spitfires, but the majority are later models. The RAF alone has five on charge as part of their Battle Of Britain memorial flight.

    Having seen the trailer, the BF109 appears to be a HA-1112 Buchon, a Spanish built post-war BF109 variant which was operated by the Spanish military into the 1960s. These are easy to spot as they're fitted with Rolls-Royce Merlin engines (the same as the Spitfire), and hence the propeller and exhausts are in the wrong position compared genuine BF109 models. Most of airworthy Bf109s are such models, with one or two retrofitted with a more suitable Daimler Benz engine.

    There are no airworthy Stukas, other than some part-scale replicas.
     
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  7. Greg Smith

    Greg Smith Forum Resident

    Dunkirk definitely worth seeing on the biggest screen possible as its a brilliant looking film, it just didn't my tug my personal heartstrings to me it felt repetitive with little character depth.
    The beaches weren't crowded enough. I never got the sense that approximately 400,000 men were on or near the beach. The scenes made it look like a small fraction of that amount.
    Ended up a little bit disappointed when I had high hopes as I love Nolan's work.
    Keen to see again, just to see if I'm missing something as its getting rave reviews everywhere...
     
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  8. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    "So, in spite of his film’s $150m budget, the Royal Air Force seems to consist of three Spitfires, although real-life pilots flew 3,500 sorties at Dunkirk. The Luftwaffe, which Hitler made solely responsible for wiping out the beached Brits, seems able to summon up little more than a couple of Messerschmitts, three Stukas and one bomber."

    Exactly. I kept thinking, how were the the troops being picked off like sitting ducks when there only seemed to be five planes in the entire German air force? And the stories he told about other ships coming to the rescue sounded far more dramatic and cinematic than Mark Ryland and his dingy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  9. Yovra

    Yovra Collector of Beatles Threads

    Not only was I quite glad not seeing Lord of The Rings-sized huge CGI crowds; I didn't miss them in the movie at all!
     
  10. agentalbert

    agentalbert Senior Member

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    No offense, but your suggestions sound so conventional. I don't see how that would have bettered the movie. It would have made the movie much more like a lot of other features, true. I do understand the desire for more backstory on how the soldiers got to the beach. But maybe Nolan didn't want to make a 3 hour film.
     
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  11. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    I expected a 3 hour film after all the hype!
     
  12. agentalbert

    agentalbert Senior Member

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    Yeah, I was surprised it wasn't that long. You do kind of expect, but I guess he wanted to tell a more narrow story. I would have been okay with it being more expansive, but like the way it was sparse on dialog and exposition, or "character development" if you will. I didn't need more of that at all.
     
  13. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    Well I felt let down. I'm all for original film-making but this was plain dull and cocked-up. Badly written, badly directed.
     
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  14. Johnny66

    Johnny66 Laird of Boleskine

    Location:
    Australia.
    I thought it was impressive film making, and neither dull nor boring. One might quibble over the lack of (traditional) characterisation, but that's clearly not how the film approaches its subject matter. I would argue that the lull/crescendo rhythm sometimes feels like Hitchcock on steroids, and indeed watching Dunkirk I couldn't help but recall the story of Hitch famously plotting the ebb and flow of The Birds with clinical precision via graphs on his office wall. Although he would probably admire Nolan's repetitive hectoring of the audience (particularly via Dunkirk's score), Hitchcock was usually far more subtle at placing the bomb under the table and watching the audience squirm, with prolonged effect. One or two sequences in Dunkirk might have benefited from a long game, as opposed to the continual roller coaster, but that's really just quibbling.
     
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  15. Johnny66

    Johnny66 Laird of Boleskine

    Location:
    Australia.
    I think the seesaw rhythm of the film would run thin at 3 hours. It's a delicate balance of holding and playing the audience for the duration, and at 3 hours that approach would likely tire the viewer out - allowing them to develop a critical distance from the rhythm that inherently demands an emotional response to remain effective.
     
  16. townsend

    townsend Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ridgway, CO
    A fine movie, which I both enjoyed (and endured), but I think the Guardian is right on target in criticizing Nolan for failing in historical accuracy to portray both the size of trapped Allied forces as well as the immensity of the civilian effort. They talked about hundreds of thousands of troops, but didn't show that in the movie, and it would have been easy via CGI. The beach should have been packed by a crowd of soldiers that would dwarf any modern gathering. And the civilian boat rescue effort -- I guess there were about 30 boats shown at most? Again, CGI could have come to the rescue.

    Pardon the pun, but Nolan missed the boat on the dimension of the problem and its superb resolution.
     
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  17. Spitfire

    Spitfire Senior Member

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    I just got back from seeing this on IMAX with laser in Seattle. I thought the movie looked and sounded great and I didn't mind the story but I did feel the scale was off by about a factor of 100. I thought there'd be a lot more soldiers, planes, boats and ships. Still a good movie but not for the military historian looking for a good overview of the whole situation.
     
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  18. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    Exactly. You didn't get that sense of desperation on the beach. The troops had been through hell to get to Dunkirk but they looked like extras earning a day's pay. The immensity of Dunkirk was entirely missing from this very weak movie.

    That was almost comical. Kenneth Branagh getting all teary eyed and overwhelmed at the sight of about 20 boats. Not me.
     
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  19. andybeau

    andybeau Forum Resident

    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    How does it compare to this
     
  20. oates

    oates Forum Resident


    I haven't seen the new film but a lot of the deficiencies named in the posts from those who have seen it makes me think that this brilliant 1958 version more than makes up it - if you can live without Imax, colour, GCI.

    It is out on blu-ray in September.
     
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  21. peteham

    peteham Senior Member

    Location:
    Simcoe County
    The very things you wanted are the things that I was pleased weren't there. So, there you go.
     
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  22. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA!

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
    I must have missed at the end when he lands way away from all the men on the beach and is captured by the Germans why he landed so far away?
     
  23. YardByrd

    YardByrd rock n roll citizen in a hip hop world

    Location:
    Europe
    Almost my list except I would swap out Thin Red Line for 1959's The Bridge
     
  24. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA!

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
    Command Decision
    Twelve O'Clock High

    Two must watch war movies for me.
     
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  25. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Interesting that you say this. When Clint came out with his Iwo Jima films, I expected to like Flags of Our Fathers since it showed the US perspective and was in English. But Letters from Iwo Jima turned out to be the much better film.
     
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