Dylan: "Mixed Up Confusion" confusion...

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by E-Rock, Sep 8, 2008.

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  1. E-Rock

    E-Rock I Got a Rock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Madison, WI, USA
    Does anyone own an original '62 pressing of Dylan's "Mixed Up Confusion" single?

    I have both the '85 CD pressing of Biograph and the '97 reissue. As has been well-documented, the two respective versions of "Mixed Up Confusion" from these two pressings are VERY different from each other, especially in regards to instrumentation and speed/pitch. Of course, the so-called "single" version included in the '97/'02 (current) reissue of Biograph is reputed to be a stereo remix of the original '62 mono single. For reference, here's a link with these two Biograph versions:

    http://web.me.com/emuchka/Site/Welcome.html

    However, something doesn't seem right with the '97 Biograph version - is it just me, or do the guitars, bass and tambourine sound like they were recorded and mixed during the mid-60's, รก la the Byrds and Simon & Garfunkel??? To my ears, it just doesn't sound right for a '62 recording, and it sounds completely different from the instrumentation for "Corrina, Corrina" included on Freewheelin'.

    To put it bluntly, I have a feeling that the so-called "single" version included on the current Biograph is NOT simply a stereo remix of the song as released in '62. But I have never heard (nor seen) an original '62 pressing to compare.

    Circumstantial evidence to back up this theory:

    - According to Michael Krogsgaard, Tom Wilson actually conducted a session on Dec. 8, 1964 (without Dylan present) to overdub new "folk-rock" backing tracks to "Mixed Up Confusion."

    http://www.punkhart.com/dylan/sessions-1.html

    So, perhaps when the stereo remix was done, could the remix engineer have actually used this '64 "overdubbed" multitrack tape as the source for the "new" stereo version??? :confused:

    This could explain why the two Biograph versions of "Mixed Up Confusion" sound so different. To my ears, the instrumentation from the version included on the '85 pressing of Biograph just sounds much more like I would expect a Dylan recording from '62 to sound. And it seems to sound much closer to the instrumentation on "Corrina, Corrina" as well. Anybody agree?

    And just to thicken the plot, according to the Searching for a Gem web site, the original '62 single has a harmonica solo immediately after Dylan's "I got mixed up confusion..." vocal intro. Well, the '85 Biograph version DOES have this harmonica solo, whereas the '97 Biograph version DOESN'T. And the words of the sixth stanza of the '85 version ("Well I'm lookin' for some answers...But I don't know who to ask") apparently match the original '62 single, whereas the '97 lyrics ("An' I feel like a stranger...In a world I'm livin' in") do not.

    http://www.searchingforagem.com/1960s/1962.htm

    So, what's the real story here? I am way off base? Can anyone confirm if the '97 Biograph version is, indeed, the actual '62 single (instrumentation, lyrics, speed/pitch), simply remixed for stereo? :confused:
     
  2. johnny 99

    johnny 99 Down On Main Street

    Location:
    Toronto
    I always loved the version on the original Biograph and feel it's superior to the take that they replaced it with on the 97 "cube" remastered version.
     
  3. mrbillswildride

    mrbillswildride Internet Asylum Escapee 2010, 2012, 2014

    There is also a version of it on Masterpieces, the 1978 Assuie/Japan only three Lp compilation. Not sure which of the two versions that is...:shh:

    :cheers:
     
  4. dprokopy

    dprokopy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Near Seattle, WA
    The Materpieces version is a slightly-longer (original?) mono mix of the first Biograph version (i.e., the non-single version).
     
  5. mrbillswildride

    mrbillswildride Internet Asylum Escapee 2010, 2012, 2014

    So there are four? different versions of Zimmerman's first single out there?

    The original 62 single
    the 78 Masterpieces (longer version)
    the 85 Biograph version
    and the 97 cube version, whatever that is...:eek:

    :confused:

    :cheers:
     
  6. Beattles

    Beattles Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    I'm so confused!!!
     
  7. peerke

    peerke Isabelle or Sophie?

    Location:
    Belgium
    Here you can find some info: http://www.searchingforagem.com/1960s/1962.htm


    Including the one on the four and possibly five pressings of this original single, there are four circulating takes of Mixed Up Confusion: the released single and three alternate takes from the recording sessions at Columbia Studios, New York, in Oct-Nov 1962.


    A Original mono single, included in mono CBS Brazil album Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits with a unique cover and tracklist, alternate mix found on 1984 Columbia acetate, stereo version on current release of Biograph

    B Alternate stereo take found on the 1970s Japanese compilations Mr. D's Collection #1, Mr. D's Collection #2, the 1978 Australian compilation Masterpieces plus the edited stereo remix of it found on the 1985 original Biograph.
    Also three different mixes of R-0145 were found on 1962 Columbia acetates that surfaced in 1984.

    C Second alternate take found on 1962 Columbia acetate that surfaced in May 1982

    D Third alternate take found on 1962 Columbia acetate that surfaced in Jun 1984.
     
  8. E-Rock

    E-Rock I Got a Rock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Madison, WI, USA
    This is precisely what I am disputing. Knowing that Tom Wilson overdubbed further instrumentation to the original single take in '64 leads me to believe that the stereo remix available on the current Biograph is NOT the same as the original mono single from '62. It may be the same "take" (?) but I seriously doubt the instrumentation is the same. Of course, without hearing an original '62 copy, my theory could be completely wrong! ;)

    Again, can anyone with an original '62 single chime in and set the record straight???
     
  9. mrbillswildride

    mrbillswildride Internet Asylum Escapee 2010, 2012, 2014

    Now I AM really confused...:shake:;)

    Sorry, no original to share info with you Op.

    But very illuminating, and confusing thread, classic Zimmy.

    :cheers:
     
  10. E-Rock

    E-Rock I Got a Rock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Madison, WI, USA
    I realize original '62 copies of this single are very rare and very expensive, but I would guess someone on the forum just might have a copy? Has anybody here actually heard one?

    Alternatively, perhaps someone here may have a (less expensive) European pressing of "Mixed Up Confusion" from '66-'69? If so, can you tell us if the take, instrumentation, and speed/pitch is the same as the current Biograph version???

    :confused:
     
  11. Edgard Varese

    Edgard Varese Royale with Cheese

    Location:
    Te Wai Pounamu
    Perhaps you could email the site owner for Searching for a Gem about this. He emails back almost straight away, a very nice guy.
     
  12. Maggie

    Maggie funky but chic

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    The dates are fishy. The Tom Wilson overdub session for "Sounds of Silence" did not take place until JUNE 15th, 1965 - i.e., after "Mr Tambourine Man" hit number 1.

    There's no way Tom Wilson overdubbed "folk-rock" instrumentation on "Mixed Up Confusion" on Dec. 8 1964, after doing the same thing to Sounds of Silence (as Krogsgaard alleges), since 1> "Sounds of Silence" had more or less just been written when the Dylan session allegedly took place and 2> 'folk-rock' didn't exist, at least commercially, until "Mr Tambourine Man".
     
  13. Paul W

    Paul W Forum Resident

    I have the following:

    Mixed Up Confusion b/w Corrina, Corrina
    CBS Records #2476
    Holland 1966
    Picture sleeve

    Sorry......can't get any closer to '62!

    Paul
     
  14. E-Rock

    E-Rock I Got a Rock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Madison, WI, USA
    Thanks for chiming in, Paul! :) Can you confirm if the take, instrumentation, and speed/pitch of your single match the '97 Biograph version? Click this link to hear the two different Biograph versions:

    http://web.me.com/emuchka/Site/Welcome.html
     
  15. Richard Feirstein

    Richard Feirstein New Member

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    I used to listen to Mixed Up Confusion on the Juke box at the Dug Out in the Village back in 62 and 63 till we wore it out. Even then it was hard if not impossible to pick up at a record store since 45's came and went so quickly.
     
  16. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  17. How about the Beau Brummels & The Searchers?
     
  18. Paul W

    Paul W Forum Resident

    Hi there! It definitely sounds like the '85 version! I'll give it a closer listen a bit later.

    Paul
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Maggie

    Maggie funky but chic

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Neither group would have been conceived of or called 'folk-rock' at the time. In fact it's questionable to call them that now, since none of them had folk credentials or roots. And the Brummels at least sounded nothing like what we would now refer to as folk-rock until about '67. Sure, they were around before, but they sounded either like a straight Beatles knockoff or a generic sock-hop garage band. I think of the Brummels a little like the Byrds equivalent of Jan & Dean to the Beach Boys - sure, they were around before, but they changed direction completely when the later group had success and can hardly be considered forebears.

    The Searchers, on the other hand, are super-important, but...I was only commenting on the claim that the "Mixed Up Confusion" overdubs, allegedly in '64, were prompted by the success of "Sound of Silence" (which did not exist in electric form until late '65).
     
  20. E-Rock

    E-Rock I Got a Rock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Madison, WI, USA
    THANK YOU!!! On the surface, at least, this may confirm my suspicions! :righton: Please do report your detailed findings (take, instrumentation, pitch/speed) after your closer listen.


    Makes sense. But putting actual dates aside for the moment, do you doubt an overdub session took place at all? Have you read any other researcher's accounts corroborating the contention that an overdub session DID take place (at some point post-'62) for "Mixed Up Confusion?" I am a novice when it comes to Dylan's session history, and Krogsgaard's site is where I first came across the "overdub" info....
     
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