I have searched all over the internet, including here. But because my search includes the phrase "eac pre-emphasis" every search result just assumes that EAC is detecting pre-emphasis and I don't know what to do with it. This is not the case. EAC does not currently detect pre-emphasis. But, as far as I have noticed, it never has. I've used it since 2010, exclusively since 2013 when I rip CD's. And the "Pre-Emphasis" collumn always says "No". And before you say "Maybe none of your CD's have pre-emphasis", the CD's I am ripping include every 35DP CD [silver face, not gold] by Billy Joel (excluding the live in Russia one), Michael Jackson "Thriller" with a 358P matrix and two EMI black triangle CD's (David Bowie and Katrina And The Waves). I'm not sure which CD's we have with pre-emphasis, but I am certain the aforementioned ones all have it. But no matter what I put in the drive, it remains undetected. Always has. My current optical drives are an LG GH24NSD1 DVD burner and a Pioneer BDR-S12U BluRay burner with 4K/UHD playback. I've tried updating to the latest version of EAC 1.6 (uninstalled the old one first, 1.3) and I'm running Windows 10 Pro 64bit 21H2 on an Intel i5 10600 with 128GB DDR4 RAM. Don't ask what I need it for. I just do. If anyone could help point me in the right direction of a setting I may have missed or even some software I should try instead (free is best but I'm open to anything with a trial to test it with) I'd be extremely greatful. Thanks in advance!
Some drives just won't detect pre-emphasis with EAC. No matter what you do. Have you tried using a drive that you know has detected pre-emphasis in the past with your current computer gear?
No, my last computer overheated to death a year ago (lesson learned: clean the CPU fan and heatsink!) and this is a new computer with new drives. I sent the old ones to recycling as I figured that, after just over five years, they had served their purpose and should probably be replaced before they die. As it was, the tray on one would only half open and had to be pulled the rest of the way! Also, I have used EAC with at least three different drives before my current ones and I have never had a "Yes" in the "Pre-Emphasis" collumn, so I assume it has been something I've done. Although, come to think of it, all of my optical drives have been either LG or Pioneer since 2005! With no exceptions! Is it possible I've managed to pick two of the brands that never detect pre-emphasis?
My 20 year old Plextor 12/10/32A is able to detect pre-emphasis when ripped using the current version of EAC with Windows 10 even though it is now in an USB 3 enclosure rather than directly connected to the PC. If you have an issue with detecting pre-emphasis it is because of the drive you're using or the way it is connected or the ripping software and settings you're using.
CDs with pre-emphasis were not made for very many years. So if somebody's CD collection consists mostly CDs which were pressed from the late 80s onwards, it is possible that one might never encounter such a CD. I also use EAC running under Windows 10 with a number of different vintage CD-ROM drives (including some Plextors), and it has detected a handful of pre-emphasized CDs in my collection. But it has only detected a handful. And I have a pretty sizable collection. But most of my CDs date from the late 80s onwards. However, EAC has also failed to properly de-emphasize a couple CDs which I know for a fact have pre-emphasis. So even with the right hardware, EAC will miss some CDs. I think this happens when the subcode isn't indicated in the TOC on a disk.
Yes, pre-emphasis is not actually that common, even if you have a collection of CDs going back to the early 80s. In my collection of CDs I have a total of 31 discs that have pre-emphasis and needed deemphasis to be imported into my library. 31 discs. So even fewer if you count albums instead of discs. Because many of those discs are parts of multi-CD albums. So all of my concern about pre-emphasis is about 31 discs out of a library of 5700 albums. That doesn't make my concern about CDs with pre-emphasis inconsequential, but in comparison to my overall library the time and effort it takes to deal with the few pre-emphasis CDs is not consequential overall except for the very few of those pre-emphasis CDs that have a worthwhile performance or mastering. All of my bother about pre-emphasis is about the handful of CDs where they are the best performance or mastering.
Apart from different drives, EAC only detects pre-emphasis in the TOC. Use other rippers, like CUERipper, to detect pre-emphasis in TOC as well as subcode.
There is a mailing list at ExactAudioCopy groups.io Group that you can join and ask questions on as well. The old EAC Yahoo group was moved over there. Andre Wiethoff (the author of EAC) monitors the list and there is an assortment of long-time users that can possibly offer advice.
EAC doesn't have the ability to add the proper EQ when ripping. Flags can be in two locations, TOC or SUBQ dB and EAC will catch the table of contents off the bat. Only an old beta of EAC/or CUERipper can scan the SUBQ for verification. As stated above you'll need an older drive for SUB detection. Regardless of what program you're using. Those titles you listed are SUBQ location.
I'm a dBpoweramp user (dBpoweramp Free 21 day trial, which can now can process discs with pre-emphasis with SoX), though have previously used EAC and keep eac095pb3 to help detect pre-emphasis. EAC-Best version?
Very good. Specifically, you'll need a drive that can - read RAW+96 - the 96 bits being the subcode. Secondly, one that can - over-read into the lead-in and lead-out (area before and after music program). Here's a 2003 chart of drives with the first: elby CloneCD 4 Supported Writers Indications that the drive can read CD-text or CD-G via software are also good. In free InfraRecorder software, Devices, (choose device), advanced, you'd want these three and especially the last "read raw P...W subcode from Lead-in" If supported, you can also try the MMC 3 read technique for your drive which adds more features in the protocol. For as few discs as there are, one can just run the affected FLACs through SoX with the preemph filter.
FWIW, although it gives no indication of it, iTunes does detect pre-emphasis if it is flagged in the disc's TOC, and applies the corresponding de-emphasis on the ripped audio, restoring a flat frequency response. EAC can likewise detect pre-emphasis in the disc's TOC, but then you'll need to use a separate audio editor to apply a de-emphasis curve to the ripped audio. Otherwise it will sound unnaturally bright -- the CD pre-emphasis curve boosts the audio by about +1.5 dB at 2 kHz, +3 dB at 3.5 kHz, +6 dB at 7 kHz, +8 dB at 11 kHz, and +9.5 dB at 20 kHz.
Okay, I've done a week long deep dig into knowing every single thing about redbook CD audio that there is to know. Basically, Exact Audio Copy makes an incorrect assumption about pre-emphasis. That there should (also) be a control bit for pre-emphasis set on the individual entries in the table of contents contained in the CD's lead-in area before music starts. There is simply no documentation anywhere that pre-emphasis or players should work like that. In this archived forum post, BobHere writes the correct answer, and the developer of EAC instead calls a TOC that doesn't indicate per-track pre-emphasis "illegal". On a CD, audio is arranged into frames of 588 samples, which are also accompanied by 96 bytes of data in a subcode (the first two bytes are special sync codes that don't contain data). There's actually 98 "small frames" of six samples each, each of six samples being accompanied by 8 bits of subcode, with letters P,Q,R,S,T,U,V,W. P is a single very accurate bit for marking which six samples start a new track. The Q channel is assembled over time into 96 bits. It tells the time and frame number being read, and Q is also what contains the bit marking "pre-emphasis". The pre-emphasis is therefore not a per-track setting, but actually a per-frame setting, decoded as the audio is being read. It is entirely possible for a track to switch on and off pre-emphasis with 1/75th of a second granularity (with only a warning given in redbook that the analog circuit may not respond instantly). I'd have to manually edit a raw CD image to test this with an old CD player, as Goldenhawk's CDRWIN .cue format only has per-track flags, and Exact Audio Copy also does the same with it's cue burning component - and duplicates PRE into TOC. For a short while, up to version 0.95b3, Exact Audio Copy had a manual function to actually scan the audio area of the disc also to find if tracks used pre-emphasis. This was removed due to some perceived legal threat. Now, basically, a standards-compliant disc that doesn't use the TOC kludge won't show "pre-emphasis" The old version has many regressions in functionality though. However, there is another way (actually several) to scan the disc to see if the pre-emphasis bit is set within the audio: the command line tool included with Exact Audio Copy, cdrdao. Below I run it on my own test disk, after figuring out the correct device (device numbers as also displayed in InfraRecorder->Options->Devices) Code: C:\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\CDRDAO>cdrdao read-toc --device 2,0,0 tocfile.txt Cdrdao version 1.1.9 - (C) Andreas Mueller <[email protected]> Reading toc data... Track Mode Flags Start Length ------------------------------------------------------------ 1 AUDIO 0 00:02:00( 150) 00:19:00( 1425) 2 AUDIO 1 00:21:00( 1575) 00:39:00( 2925) 3 AUDIO 3 01:00:00( 4500) 00:20:00( 1500) 4 AUDIO 0 01:20:00( 6000) 00:20:00( 1500) 5 AUDIO 0 01:40:00( 7500) 00:20:00( 1500) 6 AUDIO 1 02:00:00( 9000) 00:30:00( 2250) 7 AUDIO 2 02:30:00( 11250) 00:31:00( 2325) 8 AUDIO 1 03:01:00( 13575) 00:19:00( 1425) 9 AUDIO 0 03:20:00( 15000) 00:21:00( 1575) 10 AUDIO 0 03:41:00( 16575) 00:19:00( 1425) Leadout AUDIO 0 04:00:00( 18000) PQ sub-channel reading (audio track) is supported, data format is BCD. Raw P-W sub-channel reading (audio track) is supported. Cooked R-W sub-channel reading (audio track) is supported. Analyzing track 01 (AUDIO): start 00:02:00, length 00:19:00... Found pre-gap: 00:02:00 Found 15 Q sub-channels with CRC errors. Found ISRC code. Control nibbles of track match CD-TOC settings. Analyzing track 02 (AUDIO): start 00:21:00, length 00:39:00... Found pre-gap: 00:01:00 Found 17 Q sub-channels with CRC errors. Found ISRC code. Control nibbles of track match CD-TOC settings. Analyzing track 03 (AUDIO): start 01:00:00, length 00:20:00... Found pre-gap: 00:01:00 Found 20 Q sub-channels with CRC errors. Found ISRC code. Control nibbles of track match CD-TOC settings. Analyzing track 04 (AUDIO): start 01:20:00, length 00:20:00... Found 25 Q sub-channels with CRC errors. Found ISRC code. Control nibbles of track match CD-TOC settings. Analyzing track 05 (AUDIO): start 01:40:00, length 00:20:00... Found index 2 at: 00:10:00 Found index 3 at: 00:15:00 Found 8 Q sub-channels with CRC errors. Found ISRC code. Control nibbles of track match CD-TOC settings. In the output, first we see the TOC - and flags. A flag of 1 is a pre-emphasis bit. The flag of 2 is an unused "copy allowed" bit. A flag of 3 is when they are both enabled. Then after TOC, each track is read from the disc. All tracks here say "Control nibbles of track match CD-TOC settings." However if your track has an error message about control nibbles, while still a TOC flag of 0, it is likely pre-emphasis that is not recorded in the TOC. You'll have to apply pre-emphasis equalization after ripping (which I've also automated into EAC and will post about later). (in the output of cdrdao, ignore "subchannels with crc errors". Those arise because subchannel doesn't have as robust of error correction as the audio - but many of those CRC errors can be corrected algorithmically)
Have you looked at CUETools/CUERipper? Would the developers of CUERipper be willing to do pre-emphasis detection correctly? CUETools/CUERipper also has source available to look at and play with. So it's possible to look at the source and see what it is doing and how it is doing it. Something you can't do with EAC.
In case of Denon CDs that have pre-emphasis flag present only in track SUBQ, CDRDAO actually reports the following (for this disc; it features 6 tracks contrary to the back cover): Code: >"\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\CDRDAO\cdrdao.exe" read-toc --device 0,0,0 --read-subchan rw_raw b-wfh-raw.toc Cdrdao version 1.1.9 - (C) Andreas Mueller <[email protected]> SCSI interface library - (C) Joerg Schilling Paranoia DAE library - (C) Monty Check http://cdrdao.sourceforge.net/drives.html#dt for current driver tables. Using libscg version 'schily-0.8' 0,0,0: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B Rev: A117 WARNING: Cannot read driver table from file "/usr/local/share/cdrdao/drivers" - using built-in table. Using driver: Generic SCSI-3/MMC - Version 2.0 (options 0x0000) Reading toc data... Track Mode Flags Start Length ------------------------------------------------------------ 1 AUDIO 0 00:00:00( 0) 11:52:20( 53420) 2 AUDIO 0 11:52:20( 53420) 03:57:02( 17777) 3 AUDIO 0 15:49:22( 71197) 04:39:58( 20983) 4 AUDIO 0 20:29:05( 92180) 04:08:62( 18662) 5 AUDIO 0 24:37:67(110842) 04:36:18( 20718) 6 AUDIO 0 29:14:10(131560) 10:38:52( 47902) Leadout AUDIO 0 39:52:62(179462) PQ sub-channel reading (audio track) is supported, data format is BCD. Raw P-W sub-channel reading (audio track) is supported. Analyzing track 01 (AUDIO): start 00:00:00, length 11:52:20... Found 60 Q sub-channels with CRC errors. WARNING: Pre-emphasis flag of track differs from TOC - toc file contains TOC setting. Analyzing track 02 (AUDIO): start 11:52:20, length 03:57:02... Found pre-gap: 00:02:65 Found 16 Q sub-channels with CRC errors. WARNING: Pre-emphasis flag of track differs from TOC - toc file contains TOC setting. Analyzing track 03 (AUDIO): start 15:49:22, length 04:39:58... Found pre-gap: 00:00:42 Found 11 Q sub-channels with CRC errors. WARNING: Pre-emphasis flag of track differs from TOC - toc file contains TOC setting. Analyzing track 04 (AUDIO): start 20:29:05, length 04:08:62... Found pre-gap: 00:00:12 Found 13 Q sub-channels with CRC errors. WARNING: Pre-emphasis flag of track differs from TOC - toc file contains TOC setting. Analyzing track 05 (AUDIO): start 24:37:67, length 04:36:18... Found pre-gap: 00:03:52 Found 10 Q sub-channels with CRC errors. WARNING: Pre-emphasis flag of track differs from TOC - toc file contains TOC setting. Analyzing track 06 (AUDIO): start 29:14:10, length 10:38:52... Found pre-gap: 00:04:07 Found 33 Q sub-channels with CRC errors. WARNING: Pre-emphasis flag of track differs from TOC - toc file contains TOC setting. Reading of toc data finished successfully.
Thanks for detailing how the cdrdao "warning" of pre-emphasis in the audio looks when the table of contents instead has "0". Disappointing that, if the point of the command was to make a file about the CD, it still saves wrong information in that file. You have to watch the console output; console can't even be redirected to a file for further scripting. (I instead like the CD that says "NO HDCD detected" - contrary to the back cover)
^^^ At least CDRDAO allows to detect pre-emphasis when it's in track SUBQ only ... Great find, thanks!
Again thanks to archive.org, here's a windows build of CDRDAO 1.2.3 (vs 1.1.9 with EAC). HP von Thomas Plank Lots of web rot and defunct forums and websites when it comes to CD audio...
This whole pre-emphasis thing is driving me nuts. I tried CUEtools but I can't figure out the settings. I tried CDRDAO but I have to compile it and I don't know how. I'm trying dBPowerAmp at the moment, but it looks like it won't do what I want. Just in case I wasn't clear (and I don't think I was), I want something that will rip my discs with pre-emphasis left intact but tell me it has it. And, preferably, set the appropriate flag if there is one in WAV or FLAC data. Anyway, I found this very handy table comparing CD rippers, including whether or not they detect pre-emphasis. Comparison of CD rippers - Hydrogenaudio Knowledgebase Now, the main CD that I was using to test for pre-emphasis was 35DP 2 Billy Joel "The Stranger". But after EZ CD Audio Converter failed to detect pre-emphasis even after reading the subcode, I thought "Well what if this CD just happens to not have pre-emphasis on it? I mean, I've ripped this CD to FLAC and MP3 and minidisc and all of them sounded great. What would be a good CD to try then?". So I pulled out 800 102-2 Frida "I Know There's Something Going On" because I know there's something going on! OK, dBPowerAmp says nothing - although I have no idea if I'm looking in the right places or adjusting the right settings. I tried the Frida CD in that EZ CD Audio Converter and it, too, said there was no pre-emphasis on the disc. My computer is connected to our hi-fi (Yamaha A-S701 with optical input, Creative Z Series soundcard with stereo optical out) so I played a song from both CD's, first in the computer and then our CD player (Denon CDP500AE) (going off memory there) and Frida: I really can't tell! Billy Joel: It sounds the same to me. No, wait.... In the song "The Stranger" the bass is more "boomy" (in a good way) from the CD player. And this is from a file ripped from the same CD by one of these programs half an hour ago. So I'm still no better off than I was when I first posted. Because the main thing I want is for these ripping programs to tell me when my discs have pre-emphasis. Because I can barely tell when it's there. I grew up with cassettes always with Dolby B on them and no Dolby switch on any of my machines until 2009. So I'm used to music sounding "bright". But it definetly sounded better from the CD player. And I want to have an accurate rip of our CD's so I need to know when there's pre-emphasis. I'm making an archive of our CD collection and I want exact copies, pre-emphasis and all. Heck, if I could extract the entire subcode, I would! Any other programs anybody can suggest? Or any guides for using the ones I've tried? I don't know everything and I've likely overlooked a setting somewhere. If anyone knows of any how to guides or can suggest a setting and how to get to it? I'm all ears! And, clearly, they're not the best!
The old Pet Shop Boys-Please is an easy one. Pre-emphasis -table of contents, same for the old Australian New Order -Low Life (Disctronics) Here's an old pre beta EAC. No install, it's an executable. just unzip and fire it up. Dropbox - eac095pb3.zip - Simplify your life For SUBQ detection Highlight all the tracks first Action--TOC Alterations--Detect TOC Manually Now if it scans forever and keeps repeating then the rom drive is incompatible. This one is an example of New Order Low Life Japan For Europe. The flag located on this one is SUBQ.
Thank you, c-eling, that worked! Although I almost thought it wasn't. My LG drive locked up and detected the TOC manually three times before, in the middle of the third, I remembered what that meant. When it started a fourth round, I quickly hit cancel. I set up and tried my Pioneer BluRay drive next. I hate using this as it is extremely slow at extracting audio, although it does a wonderful job. Anyway, I tried my Billy Joel CD first. And it said no pre-emphasis. Huh? (Matrix is 35DP-2 101A5 in typeface) So I tried my Frida CD. Again, it said there is none. Frustrated as hell, I hit the pre-emphasis list thread. Scrolling through the list, I found the "Thriller" 358P-11 matrix J4EU CD. We have that, given as a gift back in 2010. So in it went and after analyzing, it changed the pre-emphasis collumn from "no" to "yes"! Finally! So I guess the extra boomy bass from the Billy Joel CD was our CD player's DAC as opposed to our amplifier's DAC with the computer's audio. I keep thinking I will get an external DAC and, after this, I am more determined! Anyway, thanks again, c-eiling. I finally have what I need! And, to be honest, I can't see how this EAC would rip a CD worse than a newer version, but I suppose I'll have to rip a few discs to make sure first.
Dbpoweramp now detects pre-emphasis and gives you the option to de-emphasise during ripping. Like most other programs it only detects the most common pre-emphasis tag. Plus it doesn't help that lots of older pre-emphasised CD's did not have any tagging added during manufacture,so no CD player or Ripper will detect it With Dbpoweramp you can also choose to add de-emphasis on CD's you simply suspect to having pre-emphasis (or even those that are just seriously bright sounding)
You probably will have several other CD's in you collection from the 80's that also have pre-emphasis but the tag was incorrectly not added,so no pre emphasis would be detected or de emphasised.I have about 15 pre-emphasis CD's from the 80's and 6 more confirmed pre-emphasis CD's (but with no tags at all).The only way i found out was because they sounded a bit bright and by doing research via the internet.
Nice to hear it worked for you! I only use it for detection purposes only and use dBpower for the ripping part
