Eagles's album Hell Freezes Over Remaster

I've yet to waver on my order. One more week or so, to go ( entire shipment waiting on CCR's first album release as a Half Speed standalone ).

 

You've heard my take on this and i'm quite sick of preachin' and beating a dead horse. If you look closely on both images you will notice that the waveform(s) follow a uniform pattern as a limiter has been used.

The first track I ripped from it on my setup before sending it back, is a DR 10 which is almost basically the same as this Eagles - Get Over It release.
Album details - Dynamic Range Database DR scores.

 

Nobody is asking you to preach and beat...you keep coming back and posting in the thread! LOL

In fairness, when I first looked at the entire .wav from Side A, the image of that first song on my laptop made me cringe. As it turns out, it is the worst looking (and sounding IMO) of the 15 tracks.

I am just posting images and data so that others can make a decision for themselves based on the information shared. I have the original CD and to me, this vinyl issue sounds far better. I couldn't care less if anyone else buys this release or not - I have mine and I enjoy it...and in the end that is all that really matters.

 

It is a music forum for which I am a member. I started this thread more than a year ago. I post information here as well. I purposely removed this thread from being watched due to the condescending remarks/comments. I then get "mentioned/quoted" in a post for this thread, which is under my alerts. I could honestly careless about this album, the snobbish remarks or the Eagles in general.

 

I think we all know how the forums work...

Unfortunately, it is frowned upon here to start a new thread on the same topic as one that is still open...and apparently there ARE people that care about this album and the Eagles...enough so that this thread is still alive and not closed.

So I guess we'll all carry on without you.

 

I did want to add to this thread that I found record two of this release to be more noisy than the first - especially the third side. This is after my three-step cleaning process which I always use on both new and used vinyl. But as others have also mentioned, at least both of my records were flat and well centered.

 

Thanks, I thought I'd have to say something after reading his post.
I have the original pressing and always liked it as well as a couple of CDs. I got the new one tonight and might just put it on without a bunch of fan fair, and then maybe get a chance to compare the two pressings this weekend.

 

BTW
I don't know why people get so up tight about music and new and different issues that come out. Enjoy the music, be happy something like this that only had a limited first pressing is now available on vinyl. It can't be all that bad or even all that good, it's a record and nothing is perfect if you spend your time looking for faults.

It certainly is not a K-Tell record so enjoy the music

 

I really don't understand all this fuss about this or the other vinyl release has better dynamics, less compression etc. IMO, the DVD release is still the best sounding version with much better dynamics than any vinyl release. Even the 1st vinyl pressing from 1994 has no dynamics and sounds compressed compared to the LPCM of the DVD. For me only the DVD is the way to go for this title.

 

So, anyone listened to the cd yet?

 

CD = DR9

 

Ordered CD.... Got it..... Not remastered..... Not happy

Compared it with the original. It's the same thing.

And yes, it had the 25th Anniversary hype sticker on it.

 

They've been repackaging to resell for decades now.

 

From...

https://eagles.com/store/product/hell-freezes-over-remastered-cd&ved=2ahUKEwj1k9zr1-fhAhVImuAKHXjfAAIQFjABegQIBRAG&usg=AOvVaw33JS4qFDnxg1kFpAdn_5Lr

"Hell Freezes Over celebrates its 25th anniversary with a remastered release. The album has been lovingly remastered by Bob Ludwig."

 

My LP copy is flat, the pressing is quiet, without a single negative issue. And an exceptional soundstage! It’s nice to sit back, listen without interruption, and enjoy this LP performance from beginning to end. In fact, I bought a backup copy for the future. I have the DVD, and to these ears, the LP is superior. My LP equipment: Linn Sondek LP12 turntable (Up-to-Date with all upgrades); Lyra Skala cartridge, Linn Lingo (latest model), Audio Research PH5 Phono preamp, Linn Ittok LVII tonearm. In summary, if you’ve been considering this LP purchase, it’s worth trying & forming your own opinion. A certain online seller will refund if any issues.

 

I just picked up a vinyl copy myself this week and agree 100% although I don’t have the DVD copy. Very happy with the vinyl of this. I can’t imagine anyone with a decent system not being happy with this mastering. CB did a great job!

 

Why do you say the LP is superior to the DVD?

 

I have both and prefer the K2HD.
Will have to give the stereo PCM on the DVD a listen though.

 

HFO was my defacto demo piece for auditioning new gear for over a decade. Having the CD, DVD, LD, Cassette, and Simply Vinyl versions, I knew how they sounded where their strengths and weaknesses lie and how to use them when rating new gear of all types. I saw the Eagles in 2002 and 2003 locally and was always upset that they could not get their live sound to sound as good as the did in my listening room. It did piss me off that for the money I paid they didn't concentrate on making the house sound at least comparable to the HFO recordings. It's not that the Eagles sound so bad when live, after all also I owned Live '80 since the day it came out. It never sounded bad at all, just not as good as HFO does. And that's really, really good. There is magic in those MTV sessions, in the sessions themselves as well as the recordings of them and the masters made from those. ANY format released from them sounds really really good, some formats better then others, but good nonetheless. I always considered the SV LP releases as the definitive format to hear HFO. My only beef with the recordings as a whole is that someone made a boneheaded decision (are you listening Geffen/Universal Music/ Surviving Eagles) is that they left Joe Walsh's magnificent 'Help Me Through The Night' off all audio-only releases. You get it on the VHS, LD, DVD and Blu Ray releases. When I made my own 7 1/2 ips 2 track recordings of HFO, I re-installed the song as it appears in the running order using the DVD performance, and was able to edit it so you can't tell it wasn't there to begin with.

180 Gram pressings of anything are not guaranteed to sound better just because. In fact, traditional pressing machines were never set up to press 180 and 200 gram LP's, perhaps any new machines made are. Second a Hype sticker is just that and I don't care how good anyone's track record or mastering and remastering are, everyone has a dud now and then, no one is perfect. Chris Bellman is a respectable engineer, as are Bob Ludwig and Bernie Grundman. I can point to releases from all three which for whatever reason I don't like or are paned acoustically by others. It so happens that the LP reissue of HFO is one of them, IMO anyway. I've compared it at length to my Simply Vinyl copies and I don't like how it was mastered. TO my ears it does sound like too much limiting was used, the overall level similar, but dynamics and space around the performers and instruments are lacking. The amount of EQ used is different, there are things they tried to improve that didn't need improvement. As to the vinyl itself, both my SV copes were flat and quiet on all 4 sides each to begin with, nothing needed improvements there.

Since I already had HOF on vinyl, buying a newer remaster I was hoping it could sound even better but to my ears the fact is it doesn't, its not even the same. So while not so much disappointed in it, I was unhappy overall and decided to return my copy. There are so many albums that have been remastered or reissued over the last decade, and I have a pretty long list of wants I don't own on vinyl at all. My credit will go toward buying one or two of them, perhaps a 45 RPM remaster of Dire Straits, The Doors or Peter Gabriel, where I know I will get something better for my money. As for HFO my SV play copy is still used for system demos and I plan to use it while I visit VPI in the coming months to help in purchasing a new turntable and arm from them.

 

And we know this by way of a Null test?

 

Listening and waveform

 

I might take a chance here peeps. Found a brand new sealed copy. Says is made in Germany , made in the EU. Is this a better pressed version than the domestic release ? It’s 39.99...

 

Considering the cost of the Simply Vinyl release, folks may be better off giving the newest remaster a shot, especially if they don't have the Simply Vinyl version to use as a metric to measure it by. The SV release is so good, I think it will be difficult if not impossible for anyone to better it. About the only area that they could have improved in was the type of vinyl used and the quality of the pressing itself. It took several cleaning and plays on all 4 sides to eliminate the minimal surface noise, but it can be done, on the Simply Vinyl version anyway. It was pressed good and flat with no noticeable horizontal runout. Those wanting to get everything from this and other newer LP's being released, especially on anything heavier than 140 gram vinyl, you seriously need to look into a turntable and arm that offers VTA on the fly adjustment, as well as Zenith and Azimuth. Then, get yourself an inexpensive USB microscope with measuring software and a method of making setup measurements and adjustments with a test LP.

The VTA is critical for getting optimal SRA(stylus rake angle) which should be to the same angle as the cutting head stylus was, at approx 91.5*. The cantilever and styli tip are measured with a USB microscope the sarm lowered and stylus on a LP stationary .This is where VTA/SRA and VTF is set. All of this comes after the cartridge/stylus overhang is measured then set using the 2 or 3 point alignment ensuring minimal tracking error. Getting the arm and cart set up to optimal, start making notes on the various thickness vinyl between 115 grams to 200 grams and at what height each sounds its best. Then you can set the VTA for the thickness of LP you are playing knowing the SRA is optimal and and little to no additional tweaking is necessary .

The second area that I feels always need attention is cleanliness of the stylus and LP being played. I have 2 different cleaning regimens that are be used, together or separately depending on LP's age, condition, surface noise heard, etc. Yes, even brand new LP's benefit from a thorough cleaning, since clean rooms are not always clean, and there is always some schmutz or mold release compound present. For those hearing noise not obviously related to warpage, scratches or excessive runout, a good cleaning is indicated before condemning the LP. Performing a thorough cleaning before play is always advised. Stylus tip pressures often measure in the thousands of pounds per square inch, the heat generated momentarily softens the groove walls, allowing any dirt, gunk dust, schmutz whatever to embed itself into the groove walls. When this occurs, you will be unable to remove it with all the cleaning in the world, even using glue peels and Ultrasonic cleaning.

If you have all of these above ducks in their respective rows, you will notice you are returning far less LP's for noise issues as well as other audible issues. When you do need to return an LP, most often it will have to do with how the music on the pressing sounds. After all, it is the quality of the music we are after here, not the other unwanted distractions that we do have the ability to control on our end. If you are looking for perfectly clean LP's with no noises ever, perhaps you should investigate the high resolution formats available today, as not record will ever be perfect on both sides, but you can get really close and if lucky wont hear anything in the grooves but music.

What this has to do with HFO and any other new reissues is simple. For what you spend on an LP library, the above items should all be attended to before playing any of your records . Preserving an LP from new as well as maximising sound quality of every album just makes sense. You will enjoy the listening experience much more knowing you are hearing all the information the engineer cut into the grooves, but without all the audio garbage and distractions.

These scenarios work for almost all turntables the,.. from the most expensive rigs to decent entry level tables. For those without VTA on the fly, most often adjustments are still possible, and getting the arm/VTA/SRA set to 91.5* on an average thickness LP's will give you the benefits of proper Stylus Rake Angle and SRA. Less distortion, surface noise, mistracking, and IGD/sibilance will be noted and that is what we are all after here. When everything is set right, and clean, with the album still sounding bad, you know for sure the pressing is at fault, not the turntables inability to make it sound good.

 

Should I throw my Rega P6 in the garbage?

 

No way I'd ever throw a P6 out, hopefully you are joking here... The P6 is a highly regarded turntable and arm combo. With a proper cartridge installed correctly the P6 it is a highly sought after table If you are referring to setting VTF/SRA by changing arm height, spacers are available, measured in millimeters which allow the arm height to be adjusted. Zenith and azimuth can be adjusted with shims if needed, a Fozgometer or oscilloscope with test record is what I use to adjust azimuth and check out other things. it's easier than pulling my O-scope out.

No cartridge is perfect. Stylus tip placement, cantilever angles and other things vary from cart to cart, thus the necessity to adjust to compensate for these variables. The P6 I've heard out of the box has the adjustments set closer than many others do.