EAR 834 deluxe too thin – Gold Note PH 10 as a solution?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by zeitlos, Jan 2, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Andy Saunders

    Andy Saunders Always a pleasure never a chore

    Location:
    England
    Never mind.:)

    Is your system tonally the same on record playback and other sources?:)
     
  2. bluemooze

    bluemooze Senior Member

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    Try putting a Schiit Loki between your phono preamp and your preamp/amp. It might work for you and save you a lot of money. :)
     
    zeitlos likes this.
  3. zeitlos

    zeitlos Music was my first love Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    Thank you! What’s the effect/purpose of this Loki?
     
  4. bluemooze

    bluemooze Senior Member

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    The Loki is an EQ. See here. :)
     
    zeitlos likes this.
  5. zeitlos

    zeitlos Music was my first love Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    Interesting! Thank you.

    I really thought about an EQ some months ago when I was struggling with the sound of my combination. At the moment, I wouldn't take such steps since I really like what I hear. But will keep it on my list in case I feel the need to chance the sound more substantially! Especially since it's the first time I am recommended an audio device which could be described as cheap :) That's a good thing itself :)
     
  6. zeitlos

    zeitlos Music was my first love Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    Maybe I should open up a new thread particularly named after the Telefunken tube so that people familiar with it pop in :)
     
  7. zeitlos

    zeitlos Music was my first love Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    Alright, I will try to answer the question myself by buying the Telefunken tube. :)
     
  8. I have a soft spot for Japanese tubes that I know are not highly regarded here or anywhere, in my opinion people don't know that there are some hidden gems among them.
    If one wants a Mullard like sound there's nothing better that Matsushita 12AX7/12AU7 as they were made on Mullard tooling and used a Mullard design. Even Mullard engineers spent some time in Japan after they set up the factory to train Matsushita staff on how to make tubes right. They're cheap, relatively easy to find NOS and they sound great.
    I have for Hit Ray (a joint venture in the 60's between Hitachi and Raytheon, tubes bear the Hitachi logo) 12AX7 and two 12AU7, they sound outstanding, they are dead quiet,very detailed, smooth sounding and warm. I love them. Got them all NOS and NIB from a Canadian seller on eBay, these tubes spent some months on sale but nobody wanted them, I paid dirty little money for them, people who passed on them didn't know what they missed.
    And an extremely hard to find tube that I was lucky enough to get 3 of them NOS and NIB, they were not cheap, I think I posted some pictures earlier on this thread, the NEC's 12AD7 which are a substitute for a 12AX7 but they have a lower noise level and hum and are also very detailed and smooth. I'm currently using one of these as a V1 on my EAR 834P "clone", it gets the Phono preamp to be have a very high signal to noise ratio and a highly detailed sound. To warm and sweeten things up I put a Siemens branded Ei ECC83 as a V2 and a Matsushita 12AU7 (I like this Phono preamp with a 12AU7 as a V3) as a V3, for me it's a killer combination. With the NEC 12AD7 as a V1, and a RFT ECC83 as a V2 and a RFT ECC82 as a V3 also sounds great. I haven't tried the combination NEC 12AD7 as a V1, a Matsushita 12AX7 as a V2 and a Matsushita 12AU7 as a V3, I may do so tomorrow.
     
    bluemooze and zeitlos like this.
  9. zeitlos

    zeitlos Music was my first love Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    Alright, no I can (in parts) answer my question :)

    I've been listening to the Telefunken tubes I bought for a couple of hours and I have to say that they sound very nice. Clean, enough pressure, vocals are straight. Lovely! Keepers ;)

    However, I still like the Mullard CV4004 NOS more, since they have more "character". More lively. So I will put this one gain in V2.

    Both cost more or less the same (about 150,- Euro).
     
  10. zeitlos

    zeitlos Music was my first love Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    Just put in the Mullard NOS again. Definitely noticeably richer sound!
     
  11. zeitlos

    zeitlos Music was my first love Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    However, I suppose it will take some hours for the Telefunken to enfold its whole potential.
     
  12. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Yes, some 40-50 hours IME (albeit w Tfk E88CC).
     
    zeitlos likes this.
  13. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    It won't. Tube burn-in is a myth, IMHO. Telefunkens have their sound, just as Mullards have theirs. No amount of burn-in will make one sound like the other.

    Buy the tubes for the sound they can offer ; not for the sound you hope they'll eventually provide.
     
  14. zeitlos

    zeitlos Music was my first love Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    I've got no experience if it comes to "burning-in" tubes. The guy I bought the Telefunken from told me today that normally the first 20+ hours they tend to not even listen to music while burning them in, because it's allegedly quite different from what they will be afterwards. To be honest, I doubt that there will be massive changes. But slight ones I could imagine. He explained it to me from a technical point of view. Sounded reasonable to me. However, I know nothing about technics ;)
     
  15. zeitlos

    zeitlos Music was my first love Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    Wie spielt man Röhren richtig ein? - Analogue Audio Association

    Do the tubes need a burn in?


    "Yes they do! Good Burn-in will assure maximum lifetime and develop the final sound. These tubes are burned-in initially. This burn-in process will be extended in the first 50-100 hours under normal (home) use conditions. This means you must switch off the amplifier after each use, and in the beginning not use the tubes longer than 4 hours at one time. Many short use periods have a better result than few long periods. The tubes need the „cold“ periods in between for best formatting of the filament. Some occasional blue glow effects will disappear during burn-in, or may stay. This is not gas, and it is normal. Use different loudness levels from the beginning, and increase the maximum loudness gradually. If tubes with very little use were switched off longer than 12 months, is necessary to repeat the burn in."


    And:

    Wie spielt man Röhren richtig ein? - Analogue Audio Association

    "To break-in the tubes of an amplifier usually takes about 250 to 300
    hours of use so that the tube can reach a stable thermal operating
    temperature. To speed up this process you can leave the amplifier on for
    about two weeks and it is your option to either play audio or not.
    Since Jolida uses high grade copper and silver copper wire for the
    inputs, the break-in period for this is approximately 250 to 300 hours.
    When you first turn on the amplifier fresh out of the box, the sound is
    usually constricted and lacking bass. Over time the unit will
    progressively open up."
     
    Kiko1974 likes this.
  16. zeitlos

    zeitlos Music was my first love Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    One more:

     
  17. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Oh, there are some who believe in it. It just has never been shown as being true. It's bologna.

    Take two pairs of the same exact model, measuring NOS. Burn one for 100h and alternate between the pairs. Let me know if you hear a difference.
     
  18. I recently got 4 NOS and NIB Ei ECC83 tubes, one Siemens branded, one RSD branded and two Philips branded. I opened a thread here asking for forum members opinions about the quality and sound of Ei tubes. These were non golden pins Ei's. For me they sounded a bit harsh and on the bright side.
    I was adviced to give them a chance and break them in for at least 50 hours. I'm now using the Siemens branded Ei as a V2 tube (RIAA de-equalization and around 25% of amp for both channels) on my EAR 834P "clone" as it makes it sound detailed yet warm and smooth, nothing to do with the sound this tube had when brand new.
    I've read something about an ECC88 tube? Can this kind of tube be used on the EAR 834P? The only change of tubes I've read about for this Phono preamp is puting a 12AU7 as a V3 (buffer tube) instead of a 12AX7, I have my EAR 834P with a 12AU7 on the V3 position, it makes it sound warmer, more pleasing to my ears and not so "in the face" like when I use a 12AX7 as a V3.
     
  19. Andy Saunders

    Andy Saunders Always a pleasure never a chore

    Location:
    England
    Chaps this thread has peaked my interest, having heard a bog standard 834P in a modest but great sounding system.....in the UK one can pick up these relatively cheaply, so would like to know how competitively would one be if I had the following mods carried out;

    1. Gold Lion or NOS vales.

    2. Footers ( Soundcare Superspikes.)

    3. Replace the IEC connector to Furutech.

    4. Change phono jacks ( do not know which one at this point in time.)

    5. Chassis damping.

    6. Hook up wire.

    Any thoughts? :)
     
    zeitlos likes this.
  20. zeitlos

    zeitlos Music was my first love Thread Starter

    Location:
    Germany
    I can only answer the first one:

    => 1. I went from Gold Lions to NOS and it was an improvement.

    => 2. I'm interested in this as well, however, I fear the findings might be controversial .
     
    Andy Saunders likes this.
  21. Gold Lion 12AX7 with golden pins tubes are good to be new production tubes but so are Psvane 12AX7 T Series Mark II. For new production tubes my favourite are TJ Full Music 12AX7, yes, they're Chinese, yes, they're a bit expensive (not so expensive on Aliexpress) but they sound great and in my opinion trounce both Gold Lions and Psvanes and cost more or less the same.
     
    Andy Saunders likes this.
  22. BIGGER Dave

    BIGGER Dave Forum Resident

    I have the Douk 834p clone (received it for free, long story). Came with JJ ecc83/12AX7 tubes. The sound was “okay / meh”. Swapped the JJ’s for Mullard ecc83 (I63) for V1 and V3, and a Telefunken ecc83 for V2. What a difference! This preamp is now a keeper!
     
    Kiko1974 and Andy Saunders like this.
  23. Same story, I got my EAR834P "clone" for free, also long story, and 'though some new production tubes get it sound right like Gold Lions, Psvane or TJ Full Music (these are not cheap current production tubes) I also think NOS is the way to go.
    I'm a Japanese tube nut or I should better say I'm an Hitachi and Matsushita tube fan. Hitachi has some of the quietest tubes I've ever heard also with a warm sound. I have four Hit-Ray (a joint venture in the 60's between Hitachi and Raytheon) 12AX7 and two 12AU7 and I'm saving them for the moment I can afford a better cart than my current Audio Technica VM540ML which sounds great for the price but can obviously be much improved. These Hit-Ray tubes are outstanding, I fooled a friend who has been a tube fan for all his life and he's wealthy enough so he can afford anything that can be bought with money. I put the Hit Rays on his actual EAR 834P without telling him what tubes he was going to listen, I just asked him to give them a listen without an open mind. His answer was "they are not Telefunkens, they're not Mullard or RCA's either but they sound outstanding and I'd definitely buy them for my own use". He was surprised to check they were 3 inexpensive Japanese tubes that cost me (the 6 of them) 70 Euros shipping from the US to Spain included, NOS and in their original boxes. He couldn't believe what he heard and what he later saw.
    Matsushita 12AX7 and 12AU7 use Mullard design, they were made on Mullard tooling, Mullard sent his engineer to get the Matsushita tube manufacturing plant working and even trained Matsushita staff on how to make their tubes. They sound very Mullard-like but they can be get NOS on Ebay for cheap, you just have to be patient.
    I also like how Ei tubes sound on the EAR 834P (they were made on Philips or Telefunken tools and used their design, I don't remember which one of them was right now) quite well and so do Eastern Germany RFT's and these can be got NOS for cheap.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine