Early SACD test pressings and format history

Oops!

I guess "shootout" would have worked if Kayaker had turned me on to some gangsta rap.

 

I've got kevlar speakers - fire away!

The Ivan Fisher SACD is one of my reference discs. One of the first discs I played last week when I got my BDP-83SE.

 

This was one of the most interesting threads I've read in years .

 

So, I guess the quad mix of Turnstiles being included with the upcoming Legacy reissue is pretty much out of the question then, eh?

Great thread by the way!!

 

No doubt. Having worked for CC at one point, I tend to agree. This thread however, is amazing. Thanks for sharing!

 

Yeah, Circuit City could really pick 'em...

DualDisc, DIVX AND HD-DVD

 

Black Elk, do you know if there are any pressing plants in Europe that can do single layer SACDs?

 

Any DVD-5 (single-layer DVD) production line anywhere in the World can produce single-layer SACDs with the addition of a special formatter from Philips or Sony (for adding SACD's encryption schemes). The same holds for dual-layer DVD-9 lines. There is no physical difference between single-/dual-layer DVD and single-/dual-layer SACD other than the added encryption which makes SACD unreadable by standard DVD drives (logically, the discs are very different, of course).

As I recall, both Sonopress and DADC Austria had the necessary formatters.

 

Thanks for the reply. It is good news.

Do you have any knowledge you could share with us regarding the inherent cost of SACD production such as pressing (1000, 5000 units - single layer), any additional license fees for using the format, SACD logo, etc?

 

SACD vs. CD

I'm wondering if we haven't bought into a market created myth. This isn't a current interview but truth is never irrelevant:

http://sound.westhost.com/cd-sacd-dvda.htm

I have a very expensive SACD player and many many SACDs, but virtually every one of them sounds "muted" in detail.

 

Production costs for single- and dual-layered discs were essentially the same as for single-/dual-layered DVD. The plant needed to have the SACD formatter in the line. Not sure whether there was a cost penalty for that, but it would be amortized over the expected production volumes, so maybe a tiny difference between SACD and DVD production costs.

It was the hybrid that was the focus of attention, and by design it was more expensive to make than a CD (or single-layer DVD). It needed a special (hybrid) line that combined a half CD layer in one branch with a half DVD layer in the other. There were stability issues with hybrids in the early days that required front coatings to resolve (changes to the production removed this need later), and any additional processing steps pushed up the cost of manufacture. Philips and Sony ate some of the production cost on early hybrids in order to (a) get production bugs resolved; (b) get cost down.

Clearly, cost to produce depended on the number of discs, packaging, number of silk-screens used to label disc, etc., etc. I recall a client saying he was charged $1 a disc for 10,000 hybrids in a multi-fold digi-pack with multi-page booklet (that would have been in the 2004-2005 timeframe). Following the success of the Stones titles, Dark Side, etc., large productions (for disc, booklet, jewel case, etc.) were down to about $0.35 compared to $0.25 for CD. With additional volume that gap would have closed a bit more, but there would never have been parity.

The SACD license fees were paid by the player manufacturers, IC manufacturers and disc replicators. Labels did not need licenses, but they were effectively paying through the cost for replication.

 

I heard somewhere that a label had to pay Sony/Philips(?) for putting an SACD logo on the front and back cover. I'm glad you dispelled this myth.

 

Great thread. For a long time I always read peoples comments on this forum about how
the format is dead. I thought they were only opinions and based on consumer interest.
Now after reading this(depressing)thread I clearly understand now that it is truly dead
when Sony execs are the ones who pulled the plug.

I'm thankful that there are still players on the market and I'm going to run out and
get one while I still can. I will always cherish the only 3 SACD's I've owned but never
had a system to play them on. Peter gabriel - Up ,Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed
and Dark side of the Moon.

 

You have a problem somewhere. BTW, your only other post is about SACD sv. CD
and you gave the same question. Maybe your the problem? Having a expensive SACD player doesn't mean you know how to hook it up or play it the right way.

 

Thanks for the pdf link. Amazing stuff.

 

Sony Music executives, which is not quite the same. And whether it's dead just depends on your point of view. To this day, some 50 new titles are released every month -- rather much for a dead format.

 

How many years now has some been spreading the dead format word? If you say something long enough it will come true and then that person can feel good. Hell, CD is pooping out.

 

Beg pardon?

 

I have heard the special SACD key machine was sold to pressing plants at $7500. Obviously that figure is not that large when amortized over tens of thousands of SACDs.

 

Yes, I didn't know where to post so I posted the same message in 2 different threads. sorry about that. I don't think I'm alone in thinking SACDs sounds "muted" in detail. I've seen similar comments from other members in different threads. There's not much to interconnecting a digital source to a preamp. I've got the SACD player (it also plays CDs), another CD player, and a TT plugged in to the preamp (TT through the phono stage). I've had them all for years. It isn't necessary to suggest I'm not playing SACDs right. Try addressing the suggestion that better (than even CD quality) fidelity/resolution from SACDs was a Sony marketing driven myth.


here's that link again, all factual. What are your thoughts?

http://sound.westhost.com/cd-sacd-dvda.htm

 

bump.

 

You must have some system playback issues. All but a few of my SACDs exhibit great resolution across the frequency spectrum.

What is your playback gear?

 

After reading so far, this is a great history lesson!

 

I wonder if Bob Ludwig and Chuck Ainlay also had "some system playback issues"? In an article written by Martin Fendt in HighFidelityReview some time around 2005 they said:--

 

The same as the pre-amp cost in a typical HiFi high-end system.