I normally don’t sell on eBay but recently decided to post a couple of grails for sale there to see what happens. One record is a 40 year old super rare reggae album on the Whackies label and it was sealed. I was super super explicit in the description that I will not accept a return on a sealed record and would not guarantee play quality of the record. The LP sold for less than I hoped yet it still fetched a decent enough price. A few days after receiving the buyer reached out to me and said one side had a lot of skips and that his needle “jumps around.” Without offering any financial remuneration I tried to talk to person about what could be the cause. He confirmed that the record appeared brand new. I asked him if his setup might not be dialed in and he only could confirm that his other records play fine. I asked him if he cleaned the record and he asked “why would you clean a new record” which to me exposed him as a noob. I answered him and asked him what sort of cleaning setup he had and all he had was a suspect “big fudge” kit. I told him it should be wet cleaned and I referred him to have it cleaned at his local record shop and it turned out he lives near one with a VPI. Next day he wrote to me and he said it still skips. Next he started the standard eBay refund process which I immediately disputed by screenshooting the description and photos of the original sealed album. We went back and fourth a bit and one major justification I used for refusal was this: “In my experience there are two types of collectors who buy ultra rare records that are sealed. Those who keep them sealed because they are much more collectible that way (those seem to be the majority) and those who take a risk and open them. You chose the later and thus plummeted the value of the item.” Anybody here have experience with this type of situation?
I haven’t sold on eBay in ages but if I were to again, and sell a sealed LP, I’d stipulate that if unsealed the condition of the record may be that it skips and has pops/ticks. I’d think that would cover a legitimate seller. Curious if eBay sided with you?
Unfortunately there is no such thing as “all sales final” or “as-is” on that auction site. “Returns not accepted” is (more or less) a moot point, because the seller can be forced to provide a full refund to include shipping charges. They can’t claim “item not as described” here, but eBay often takes a different view. As far as they are concerned, you are basically LL Bean, and have a lifetime money back guarantee if not 100% completely satisfied.
We have yet to see. A friend of mine in same situation in past has said he’s had luck but actually calling eBay which I plan to do Monday.
I don’t know if you meant to insult my intelligence but that advice came from longtime friend and eBayer voxpop76 who prob has as much or more record selling experience than just about anyone here so I’m inclined to think it might be an avenue.
I know a few high volume collectible LP sellers and while the details escape me they are ‘ranked’ at a higher level due to longevity, volume and high scores and get more leeway when it comes to disputes. They also have a dedicated phone line to call. Your friend may have that level?
I find this statement really unfortunate: You can't fault him for trying to use something he bought. He bought the record from you, and he tried to play it. If he does not lie, the record has issues. That may not be your fault, but it is also not his. He does not have to accept a faulty product. How ebay deals with this is a different matter. If the price is not too high, they might refund him and you will also keep what he paid.
Exact text from my item description: “NO RETURNS ON SEALED VINYL. Because it's sealed we cannot guarantee the play quality so buyer beware.”
Exactly why do you find that statement really unfortunate? For me it’s just a matter of fact when it comes to collecting. Same would be true of it were a vintage Star Wars toy or a deck of cards. In terms of my own record collecting habits I’m mostly the guy who opens them but I think we are the minority. I do own a few that I would never open though for various reasons.
Nowadays there are two types of sellers of sealed records. Those who know the rules of online marketplaces and those who don't.
Unfortunately for you, in my experience Ebay is going to side with the buyer. Can you come to some agreement for a partial refund to the guy?
Although I do have empathy for the buyer, I don’t know how more explicit Soulsanista could have been. Every time I buy on EBay I check for these kind of stipulations, and my decision to buy is informed by and partially based on them. If he as seller is forced to reimburse the buyer, that just strikes me as placing the final responsibility on the wrong party. If EBay wants to reimburse the buyer, then great—I think that could only help their overall business in the long run even if it costs them a few bucks in specific cases.
I have empathy for the buyer tooZ it’s why I took the time to walk him through all the possible reasons he’s experiencing problems (which exposed that he’s a very new enthusiast). However anyone who has collected for any decent amount of time knows what buyers remorse is. I certainly know what it’s like to be in his shoes if he is indeed being truthful.
For those wondering what this is it's an old discwasher style brush. Not quite a VPI RCM. I'm on my second one. But I did have a discwasher back in the day! 70's. I think the only RCM back in those days was a Keith Monks contraption.
I haven't sold vinyl on eBay (CDs ad DVDs, mostly), but have found in the past that they inevitably side with the buyer even when it's proven that the buyer is at fault. (Example: I sold a Like New UK DVD set and stated in four separate places in the listing that it would not play on a standard US player. The buyer sent it back (with discs scratched) because it wouldn't play on his US player. I even had to pay his return shipping.) Your best hope is exactly what your friend suggests—getting on the phone with eBay as soon as possible and being very nice to the agent. In my experience those people are usually smart, thoughtful and have the power to override the rules, especially for an established user. The buyer will still get a refund, but eBay may be prepared to eat the cost and let you keep the money. Good luck.
When you sell on eBay, you are selling under eBay's terms and conditions. It doesn't matter what you stipulate in your listing. You're bound by eBay's "money back guarantee" policy when you sell. I think most forum members understand the unique risk and situation with buying sealed collectible items, like a sealed vinyl record. (Here's a recent thread by a seller in the same situation, who sold a sealed record.) eBay is dealing with massive amounts of transactions in a high volume, cookie cutter way. Some seller sells a sealed six pack of white socks. Buyer opens the pack and discovers the factory only put in four pairs, and mistakenly put in red not white socks. Seller's not off the hook because they wrote, "as is, no returns, no guarantees" in their listing. We know that is a totally different situation than buying a sealed box of baseball cards, or a sealed 50 year old record. But it is not easy to get personal attention on your case from the many socks sales out there. I don't have a step by step answer for the OP. But the OP should just understand where eBay is coming from, and navigate accordingly.
Good luck with that calling eBay thing. In the past, you could call eBay (I've done it). But it appears that as of sometime this year, you can no longer just call eBay.
I'd say you're toast, and you'll need to take it back. Is this fair or reasonable? No. Is it how eBay adjudicates? Yes. And because he agreed to have it "serviced" at the local VPI record store and it is still--according to him--defective kind of sealed your fate. And if you somehow dodge the bullet with eBay, the buyer can just file with PayPal and they are even more unreasonable. Generally, if a customer complains, unless you believe it's fraud and that you can prove that somehow, then you're gonna have to take it back if they decide to file a claim. (And even if you can prove it's fraud, you will often wind up taking the return). If eBay sides with the buyer, you will pay for return shipping as well. As a hail Mary, I find the best idea is to try to get in front of having to pay return shipping by saying something like: "I'm sorry that you are having trouble with the item. As you know this item is sold as-is with no returns. But I don't want you to be unhappy. If you return it to me, I will refund your entire purchase price." A savvy buyer will ask for the return shipping label, but some people are happy that you don't argue about the return and go ahead and pay for the return shipping. Once they file a return request through eBay for a defective item, you lose the ability to try and get them to pay for return shipping.
True. When you sell on eBay you accept their rules which provide a guarantee to buyers. eBay does ask the seller to pay for return shipping, which is something PayPal never did. One thing that eBay has over PayPal's buyers guarantee is the time period. eBay gives buyers a 30 day claim window. I can't remember when the clock starts ticking but IIRC it's the day it arrives or was expected to arrive (if no tracking). So at least with eBay, you don't have that 180 day exposure that you do with PayPal.
This would be your best chance at getting them to let you keep your money. My advice is to keep this as simple as possible. I called them several times and they don't really understand the intricacies of the record collecting world. Trying to explain it just confuses them most of the time. So try and keep it simple if you have to. I would avoid the this angle “In my experience there are two types of collectors who buy ultra rare records that are sealed. Those who keep them sealed because they are much more collectible that way (those seem to be the majority) and those who take a risk and open them. You chose the later and thus plummeted the value of the item.” Because in the world outside our record collecting bubble, a record is just like anything else, bought new and expected, not assumed, to be new. If it doesn't play, then it's not new. Concentrate on the this angle "Because it's sealed we cannot guarantee the play quality so buyer beware.” Still a long shot and in the end they may still give the buyer their money but let you keep yours as a courtesy. Once this is over, I would reconsider selling sealed records online. The inherent risk really lies with the seller regardless of how anyone actually feels about it. You might win this one, but you'll lose the next one. Often, you can get the same high end price for your item by opening it, playing it and stating exactly that; opened to check condition, played once, plays NM.
Not sure if it's different for Canadians but I had to call them three weeks ago and was able to get through. It is more of a process now. You have to be logged in, they ask which item you are calling about, etc and you can also do a call back rather than be put on hold. Overall it wasn't that bad of a process though. I was expecting the worst.
An item for sale has to be fit for purpose. If this was a new release like this, the retailer would have to replace or refund. It's not fit for purpose, so you need to refund.
