Ebay issue

By the way, I'm somewhat confused. I was responding (as far as that picture that was just posted is concerned), to that when I spoke of the visual condition. But you said the Eagles LP was what you bought. So two separate situations were brought to light here, right?

Still though, regardless of what your Eagles LP looks like, if the seller has several copies, he could just check the others.

 

Points well taken....I am going to request a full refund and indicate to said seller, is it worth it to your repuatation as a seller to not refund my money ($150.00) on a clearly factory defective lp ? I'm sure it wasn't previously used, just defective to the point that at least on the first side of the lp, it's not an audiophile listening experience like it should be for my money. I'm not a collector/record speculator..I'm a listener.

 

My pics aren't the OP's. He has a new LP and mine is the suspiciously worn-out "sealed" lp. I think the seller intentionally cracked the beat up record to make it look like it was damaged by the post office. The box arrived in perfect condition so I don't know if the postal inspector is going to go along with it. And, the beat up record would be suspect if the inspector checks the eBay completed listing which says "sealed" record. I wouldn't pay a claim for that one if it was my decision.

 

And we hope that you familiarize yourselves with the eBay Buyer's Protection Plan, and the information from eBay's director of data warehousing.

 

So what you're telling all of us is that eBay is not fair to sellers? All a buyer has to do is file a dispute about something.. anything... real or imagined wrong with an item and they'll get their money back with no questions asked?

You know that without sellers; eBay goes out of business, right?

 

I love ebay...I have spent $15K on vinyl since February. 99% of my experience has been perfect. This guy doesn't qualify with his business practice of no returns to be included in that category. Perhaps he needs to learn a lesson...and it's worth $150.00 for me to try...worst case, I keep the record albeit with problematic sounding side A (ie: Hotel Cali ).

 

My humble opinion:

Because it's a cutout, over time, a bunch of dust can get into the record and sleeve. You'd be surprised just how dirty some records can get with a cutout. Motown lps are also not known for their quality control either.

Did your lp have a plain white inner sleeve, or a sleeve with the same texture as a plain white inner sleeve? This is also bad. The older white inner sleeves almost always cause scuffing, even on sealed lps. Combine with the cutout, and it is plausible that the seller is being honest.

Expensive sealed records are normally bought by people with tons of money who collect sealed records, or resellers. It seems that there are opened copies available on Ebay. The sellers reaction to the fact that you opened it is understandable, though shocking to a non-collector such as yourself. When you intend to play a record, always buy an opened one.

Don't be too hard on yourself or the seller, as we are all learning as we go. The fun is in the journey, not the destination!

 

This is all accurate. (Ebay occasionally sides with the seller, but this is now the exception.)

Although I side with the buyer in this case (the OP), eBay HAS become hostile to sellers over the last two to three years. And yes, many unscrupulous buyers have been having a field day because of this. You could even say that eBay has been enabling buyer fraud.

You should read eBay's Seller Forums for a glimpse of the variety of ways they screw sellers over these days. I think it'll be an eye opener for you. I go there periodically to reaffirm to myself that I made the right decision when I stopped selling there in '08.

I saw the writing on the wall. And I read it correctly.

 

My final repsonse to said seller:

 

Nice response rockitman, that should do it. Well done!

 

I like his version of accepting my counter offer...

I haven't responded yet....I'm thinking along the line of the attitude he started with me...$139.95 refund or pound salt...

 

Yeah ok, where do you draw the line then? Those policies are in place and are to be utilized in the appropriate situations. They're not there so that people can abuse them, even though they can. Come on.

 

Quite right rockitman go for the full amount I would.

But I would not have sealed the album again for the simple reason he might pass it on to someone else who might not be as robust in their claiming a refund if he points out his no refunds bit again.

For general sales over here the law is you go against your seller and he has to go against his seller unless it is out of his own personal collection then unfortunately he takes the hit.

 

As far as this Eagles Simply Vinyl press,
I am familair with their Gold Sticker sealing option, which complicates it slightly, but in general Sealed records can't be guaranteed. There is no way to know the condition. As a seller I am flexible to anything else but to expect the seller to bear the responsibility if you don't get a good one is BS in my opinion. The seller assumes all risk even though you ruined the value of his item? and this is fair how?
Unless you are buying from a retailer online or B&M who accepts returns, it is buyer beware for out of print / vintage sealed LPs.

I am tempted less and less by sealed records as most vintage sealed records are warped, or aren't any better than a nice VG++ copy, that are much cheaper and you have the chance to pick the mastering/stampers as well.

C

 

i can take care of that my friend...for the good of the vinyl community...

 

Obviously it is nigh impossible to guarantee the condition of a sealed piece of vinyl but we will have to beg to differ re the seller not bearing the responsibility.

Maybe that's why in Europe vinyl was never sealed and usually your records were checked by the Sales Assistant when purchased to check for any irregularities. I know I went through a helluva lot myself.

I appreciate that you did not pose a question at the end when you mention vintage sealed records but I have to ask a few myself. If the probability is that they have an issue such as warped then why are they being sold as in mint condition. When in the old days mint meant they were playable.

Also why are they being sold to people who are not collectors and don't just buy them to have them sit on a shelf? Wouldn't it be better if the listing advises people not to buy this album if you are going to play it as there is a high probablitlity that it maybe warped, pitted etc etc etc.

As I mentioned in my first post I still feel that each seller in the chain bears the responsibility for selling to the next buyer in the chain and this means if the product is faulty or not as advertised then they have to bear the brunt.

In the old days you took your record back to the store for replacement so I am not sure when this changed into "tough luck pal you bought it so it's your problem".

 

surreal

 

Why are you rolling your eyes? I'm not drawing any lines. I am allowing eBay it's options in guaranteeing customer satisfaction. I am encouraging buyers to comply with eBay's policies. eBay is drawing the lines in the eBay Buyer Protection Plan and buyers are not abusing it if it's offered to them. I suspect eBay will be less likely to side with the customer if the economic outlook improves. But, in the meantime, I see no reason not to encourage buyers to take advantage of the protection eBay offers them. In most cases the buyer will not get burnt and sometimes eBay even helps the seller with those costs. I see nothing wrong with eBay's approach. They are sharing the costs of customer satisfaction with the sellers. It's their business choice, not mine.

 

I was surprised that I didn't find a sympathetic audience here. I had no idea that so many people buy and keep sealed LP's. I have several myself, but many more that I purchased to play! I would never open the sealed first pressing of the double Supremes Greatest Hits lp complete with it's original September 1967 price tag. But a rather tired looking cutout of an obscure and not highly sought after Motown group is just dance music for the northern scene - these get played!

 

I'm 55 years old, have collected an entire room's worth of vinyl in 45 years, and thought I had encountered every possibility. I'm intimately familiar with every variant of Motown vinyl. I have things I can tell YOU about Motown's product. I think this is the first blatant fraud I've acquired.

The record was completely sealed AFTER the cutout. The big 2 square inch triangle was cut off the corner and then the record was sealed. That's a little questionable because usually the cutout is made after it's sealed and there's an open slit where dust and grime gets into it. So that can't explain it.

The inner liner was cut at the same time as the outer cover. So the used record was put into a new inner sleeve before the cutout. That was a clever trick I'll admit.

It didn't have a white liner - it had the typical contemporary liner with all of the record pictures. I don't think that any breakdown in materials caused the intentional looking very deep scratches like someone was scribbling to fill a box using a safety pin. That just doesn't happen. Also, how would you explain away the completely whitened and worn out grooves for several tracks, and the somewhat worn appearance of the remaining tracks. I'm telling you this vinyl has seen many spins with an unkind tonearm.

I can't think of any non-suspicious reasons that a sealed LP would contain a record nearly ruined by play, scratches, dust and cracks. What we have here is a seller who has learned to work the system using post office insurance claims and consequently the public subsidizes his livelihood.

 

Are there any spindle marks when viewed under a bright light? If it was played there has to be the telltale sign of visible spindle marks. A sealed record where the holepunch or cutout is covered up is always suspect and should be avoided.

Your record sounds like a reseal, which would better explain it's very dusty and worn state, even it's "prior played" state as you described. I don't think you were scammed though. I think the seller just didn't have a lot of experience with sealed records. And now, should you decide to go down the treacherous route of sealed record buying again, you have gained valuable knowledge to help you ask beneficial questions before purchasing.

Once you see and handle a lot of sealed records, you can get a pretty good idea about it's history, but it takes a lot of experience. What's the condition of the shrinkwrap? Does the album has wear on the corner tips? Is the album completely flat? Does it have that musty, was in a basement for a long time smell? Are there the original "breath holes" in the shrinkwrap? Are the cutouts covered by the shrinkwrap? Are there any original stickers? Can you tell by the cover whether it's an original or later pressing? Believe me, the questions you will get if you sell sealed records might sound nit-picky to a non-collector, but it's those questions that separate a $5 record from a $500 record.

So you want to know if your sealed copy of Kiss Destroyer is an original pressing? Well, you have to open it and check the label, as the covers are identical with slightly later pressings. I learned that after being bombarded by Kiss collector questions when I listed one and didn't know if it was an original.

 

I once had a sealed Rolling Stones Hot Rocks lp. This is another one of those records where you can't (or I couldn't anyway) tell the pressing by the cover.

Thinking that I may have the super-rare one (a long shot, I know!), I opened it up to check......

Not only was it not the rare one, but it had two side 1/side 2 records, and no side 3/side 4! So in a period of a couple of minutes, it went from a sure $50 record, to a possible $1000 record, to a worthless record. Such can be the agony of records still sealed!

 

I couldn't detect from the item's pictures that the cutout was actually sealed over. Sometimes there isn't enough time to get a question answered before the lisitng closes though.

Again, I've been collecting over 45 years and have an entire room devoted to my vinyl collection alone. Floor to ceiling, every wall, organized too. I've handled way too much vinyl in my life. I know what an Arlans record price tag looked like on a Marvelettes Playboy album because I bought one new there. I know what the prices where at Hudsons, K-Mart, Federals, Grant's Woolworths, etc,. I still have my copy of "Reflections" with the Grants 89 cents tag (that burned me because it would have been 69 cents at Federals had it not sold out!) The problem is that auctions do not give one that same opportunity. And I took a risk buying from an unknown seller. I know better than venture away from the ones I trust. Sometimes an item is just too tempting and if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is!

Yes, there are ugly spindle marks, myriad of the tiny scratches in the runout, and 2 tracks look like they were played with an antique steel needle.

Can I interest anyone in the Pocket Discs I bought from a machine at Federals ? They sound fantastic! Honest!

 

OK, I can't give the benefit of the doubt to the seller any more Belsnickel, you were RIPPED OFF.

Hopefully the seller takes it as a learning experience. When a buyer (such as yourself), has more knowledge than you, one must listen. If it costs him some money, that's part of the learning experience. Good luck!