Educate me on Smile from The Beach Boys

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Whoroger89, Jun 29, 2022.

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  1. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Agreed, that's how I think of it and I like it very much. It also supersedes the Brian Wilson version for me.
     
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  2. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    I just wish it were in stereo. That’s the main reason I had to roll my own.
     
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  3. Somebody Naked

    Somebody Naked Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I would say: listen to the only finished version of Smile that exists (Brian Wilson's). Be amazed at how it almost sounds like The Beach Boys. Go to The Beach Boys' versions of those songs, and be amazed at how it almost sounds finished.
     
  4. Pretty.Odd.

    Pretty.Odd. Guess I'm Dumb

    Location:
    Montclair, NJ
    Barnyard has a vocal from a piano demo that doesn’t sound right on top of the track. The demo was recorded kind of on the fly and isn’t in time so they had to digitally sync the vocal to the track and it just doesn’t sound right at all to me. Same thing with “I’m In Great Shape”. I’m also just not a fan of those tracks to begin with. I would have preferred the unfinished instrumental tracks.

    “Fire” uses backing vocals from a different track on Smiley Smile

    The ending of of “Holidays” uses a transition from Smiley Smile that they had to digitally time sync to the track

    The beginning of “Love to Say Da Da” uses parts of “Cool Cool Water”, which wouldn’t have been part of the original song had it come out in the 60s.

    And as much as I love this new version of “Surf’s Up”, they still used parts of Carls vocal from 71 as well as the ending backing vocals from 71.

    I might have forgotten some others. It’s a solid listen, I just wish they didn’t use BWPS as a template because it should have been treated as it’s own thing. Just not a fan of the Frankenstein stuff that was done. Having said that, I’m still very glad it was released and I cherish my 5 disc set :agree:
     
  5. Whoroger89

    Whoroger89 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Yeah the mono sound left me a little wanting
     
  6. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Brian Wilson Presents Smile was nothing less than a miracle in 2004. But it was designed as a live presentation, and it is still best enjoyed in that context - fortunately someone has posted the whole thing and no one has taken it down - a terrific performance by Brian. I would say that it stands as among the best works from artists of the "classic rock" era of the 60's and 70's. An amazing accomplishment - and it comes across as a complex, but fully realized work.

    It also established the blueprint for The Smile Sessions, which is gorgeous. but sounds a bit unfinished - moments of genius scattered among all of the musical snippets and fragments.

     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  7. Ma Kelly

    Ma Kelly Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    I don't mind it being mono, and I tend to listen to my own homemade version in mono most of the time...though tempted to bust out the stereo mix now.

    Anyway, the thing that did annoy me about the use of mono was the version of Cabinessence - I dunno if that was some vintage mono mix or whatever, but it sounds terrible. Been years since I listened to it, but something funky happens in the chorus and it just sounds horrible - when you get fan-made mono mixes of that song that beat the official released version then you know something's gone amiss somewhere. Same with Barnyard - I've heard fan mixes that were able to fly in the demo vocal without the piano from the demo and it sounds so much better than the official version, which to me is unlistenable.
     
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  8. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    He meant it to be mono, but the stereo mixes all sound fantastic.
     
  9. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    The original mono mixes with the original edits made by Brian have the spook that you don't achieve with the more polished remixes. They gently crossfade sometimes, but the real stuff has jagged, disorienting left turns that makes it more exciting.

    Yes, the original Smile is "unfinished". But these tracks sound pretty damned finished:

    Prayer
    Cabin Essence
    Wind Chimes
    Vegetables
    Wonderful
    The Elements: Fire
    Heroes & Villains (whichever version you prefer)
    Surf's Up (maybe he didn't record the second movement because he was satisfied with the piano/vocal rendition)
    Do You Like Worms (just needs a lead vocal. Use the verse backing vocals on both verses and it sounds even closer to being complete)

    There's nearly a complete album there. So what's the problem? Leave off the unfinished bits like "Child" and "Old Master Painter" and you'll forget that's it's unfinished. Its just a little short.

    I don't need a translator to help me comprehend the sheer power of this material. BWPS is a very good modern interpretation of nearly all the material from this era designed for live audiences, and it makes for a nice listen, and it's cool that Brian dealt with it and got it off his back. "Dada/Blue Hawaii", in particular, is fantastic. It takes a mildly interesting unfinished idea and turns it into an epic closer for the new 3 movement "Smile" adventure.

    My problem with "Smile Sessions" is the attempt to bend old recordings to fit a modern blueprint. I'm not talking about track order, I'm talking about flying in parts that never belonged, extending intros and fades, some really bad decisions. The 'chi chi child' vocal fly in RUINS "Look" and only makes it sound more unfinished than it actually is; and what the hell is "Child is Father of the Man" supposed to be? Its not even a song now, just a bunch of spare parts strung together. The vintage backing track exists, and matches BWPS arrangement, so why are we suddenly veering from that blueprint we're supposedly chained to? And what's with the Chipmunk vocals on "Dada"?

    I rolled my own as soon as I could (literally like 48 hours after the box was released). 12 track album, plus Prayer, separate tracks. 38 minute album. Makes perfect sense.

    But you do you. Personally, I think less is more. I think things like "Barnyard" were cut for a reason. Leave them on the floor.

    And I swear to God, the day someone says "Our Prayer/Gee" to me face to face I'm going to be arrested for assault.

    In closing, I prefer the material in it's original form, with it's original sound. That said, yes, I rock out to my own "Stereo Smile" CD in the car (and I include "Look" even though I know it probably wasn't going to be a part of the album at that time). But it is not meant to be a grand suite. It is a standard 12 track album., albeit one made up of some of the greatest songs ever recorded.
     
  10. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    What do you have against “Our Prayer/Gee”? I mean, I do mine differently too.

    But I think that that works pretty well.
     
  11. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    I just don't like the idea that they are permanently shackled together. "Gee" isn't even a thing; it's "Heroes and Villains Part 2", an unused b-side for the single.
     
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  12. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    Yeah. Well…to be honest I dont mind bending history a little. In fact it’s unavoidable.



    I put the whole “Sections” track and include “Cool Cool Water [Alternate]” from Sunshine Tomorrow on mine. I give no damn!! I am unfettered!
     
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  13. newelectricmuse

    newelectricmuse charm, strangeness and quark

    Location:
    London
    I think you've put into words how I feel about it. Thanks.
     
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  14. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    I’m with you on the flown in vocals though. That stuff does ruin “Look” and CIFOTM does kind of suck. Thats where Soniclovenoize comes to the rescue.

    I do like the vocals on “Fire.”
     
  15. skyjelly

    skyjelly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lisbon, Maine
    I went through a SMiLE phase about 20 years ago. Like others who were affected with it, I found as much stuff as I could. I bought BWPS on release, and then the 2 cd SMiLE box. Recently I watched the Brian Wilson doc on PBS, which led me to pull out BWPS, which led me to pull out SMiLE Sessions. I hadn't listened to either in some time. Neither is "perfect" but for "official" I do prefer the Beach Boys version.
    Then I saw this thread yesterday and went digging and found my Purple Chick version. Again, not perfect, but I almost prefer it over the other two. I have some other versions hiding somewhere that I now want to listen to.
    I thought I was done with this rabbit hole, but I guess not.
     
  16. Ma Kelly

    Ma Kelly Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    I've never heard a version of Vega Tables that sounds finished. I mean, it probably was finished...it's just not that great a song. It could be great...it's just not. I think more than anything, that's the one song that stops me fully treating Smile as a finished album and I'm always tempted to boot it from the album. But I can't because I kinda love it. Ugh, such a conflicting song.
     
  17. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    I thought the version on "Smile Sessions" was pretty good, though that first chorus doesn't quite feel right.

    All the parts are there, its just a matter of putting them in the order Brian Wilson circa April 1967 intended.

    I like that "ringy dingy" overdub thingy he added to the track (when did he do this? Smiley Smile sessions?). You can only hear it during the fade on "Smiley Smile". I always airlift that thing into my stereo Smile version. Seems like it belong there.
     
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  18. ronbow

    ronbow Senior Member

    Location:
    St. Louis MO
    Yes, this is a great presentation isn’t it? Started watching it again and it reminds me what a remarkable set of recordings was the original Smile, but also what an equally amazing work was BWPS - perhaps his meisterwerk? What a joy.

    BTW, does it really have to be either / or? The original Beach Boys tracks are certainly a treasure, but as far as i know - :laugh: - they never performed it live. To see Smile performed, on stage, in a live concert setting, after all these years was nothing short of wonderous.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  19. Collapsed Lung

    Collapsed Lung Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York, NY
    ...I'm another one of those people who went through a big Smile phase before the archival set and Brian's version came out. As a result, I'm more fond of the bootlegs -- the Vigotone 3LP and 2CD versions, specifically -- than the official versions. That's entirely out of affection and the excitement of having been able to acquire them at the time, and doesn't have as much to do with the actual quality of the material. Am I alone here?
     
  20. Whoroger89

    Whoroger89 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    You're welcome lol
     
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  21. nosticker

    nosticker Forum Guy

    Location:
    Ringwood, NJ
    I've mentioned this ad nauseum, but the Smile Session version of Surf's Up has an out-of-sync lead vocal. The first "columnated" line falls so far behind the track that I am astonished that it was permitted to go out like that. I thought I was hearing things, but I listened to other fan mixes and nope! Demo vocal perfectly synced to the studio backing track. Lame and disappointing. I enjoy most of the rest of the 2011 mix, wonder what happened?


    Dan
     
  22. Brian Doherty

    Brian Doherty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    While intended for a generalist audience, you might find this essay of mine from the day of release of BWPS to be interesting background on the meaning of the SMILE phenomenon:
    Can't Wait Too Long
     
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  23. Ma Kelly

    Ma Kelly Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    I think it's more in the context of all those other songs, it sounds more skeletal so always sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Not that there aren't other parts of Smile that are pretty sparse sounding - say the verses of Cabin Essence - but Vega Tables' verses in particular sound a bit half arsed and the piano just doesn't sound that rich or big enough or something. And yet weirdly the Smiley Smile verson is one of my favourite BB's songs. I guess that skeletal sounding thing is why I Love to Say Da Da goes nowhere near my version of Smile.
     
  24. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    Most of “Vega-tables” was played by the band rather than the Wrecking Crew I believe(except for the tag, of course.) so it does sound different, but the vocal arrangement is genius.

    The song itself is comic goofing, almost novelty, but super-catchy. If there was another big hit (after GV and H&V) on the (imaginary) album it would’ve been that one… But it would’ve been the kind of hit that everybody hated in a month’s time.
     
  25. classicrockguy

    classicrockguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    i could be wrong, but I always thought that the horn section on "Look (Song for Children)" is too clean and modern sounding, doesn't sound like 1967 at all. Is that the way it would have sounded in 67?

    I also like "Fire" a lot better without the "woodpecker Symphony" vocals which kind of dilute it a bit
     
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