Educate me on Smile from The Beach Boys

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Whoroger89, Jun 29, 2022.

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  1. classicrockguy

    classicrockguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    I don't think it's a trumpet. That piano intro to "Child Is the Father..." is so haunting and gorgeous, but this harmonica sounding thing keeps playing that spoils the vibe. I know I have a version somewhere where the whole intro is nothing but piano, nothing else.
     
  2. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    But in the sessions you can hear them working it out. It’s a trumpet, played with a hat or something. Played by Ollie Mitchell, per Slowinsky’s notes.

    It’s meant to sound like a baby crying “wah wah”. When Mitchell first plays it, Brian gets excited and he says something like “there it is, that’s it! That’s our baby!”
     
    trumpet sounds likes this.
  3. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man


    They may have been better off issuing it as the lead single instead of "Heroes and Villains".
     
  4. Zerox

    Zerox Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I always wondered why the end section of Vega-Tables that features on the GV box is not on the BWPS version ( you know, the "ba ba bom, bom, ba-ba-ba bom..." bit). It redeems the whole song for me!

    Yes, the first parts are catchy but if it were just the verses and the "Mama says" sections it would be pretty two dimensional. But then out of nowhere comes yet another of those catchy vocal riffs that Brian was so good at around this time, lifting it onto a higher level.

    I wonder if it were considered too close to the "ba ba bom..." (I really love the fact that I'm dissecting such phrases as "ba ba bom"!) section that preceded the BWPS version of Heroes And Villains?

    The last section of DYLW also elevates the song for me (here we go again...! The "mmmmm-mmmmm, mmmmm-mmmmm..." bit).
     
  5. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    That part is actually the bridge, per Brian's vintage 1966 edit. Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Half Chorus. 2:50.
     
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  6. classicrockguy

    classicrockguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    Woops, I went back and listened again. The part in the intro sounds more like a trombone, the harmonica sounding thing is at about 1:34 or so during the instrumental break. The version I thought I heard had neither of these in them. Just the piano at the beginning and just the 1:34 break without any horns or anything.

     
  7. Ma Kelly

    Ma Kelly Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    Yeah it's catchy - and I do like it - I just think there's a great song in there trying to get out. You can tell Brian was really working it hard in early 67 to be the next single and it just got too convoluted (IMO) - probably why I prefer the SS version, as it's more concise and is catchier for it. I can't imagine it ever being a hit though!
     
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  8. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    @classicrockguy

    There is no trombone or harmonica on the song according to the sessionography.

    And if you listen to the sessions, you can hear Brian slowly coaxing that distinctive sound out of the horn player. It does sound a little like a harmonica, though.

    But it’s a trumpet played with a hat or something.

    But the sound is more like around 1:25-1.30 on your link, I think.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  9. Ma Kelly

    Ma Kelly Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    Oh yeah that end section is genius. I vaguely remember reading that it doesn't really belong to Vega Tables though - more that when they were compiling the Good Vibrations box they found that bit, liked it and wanted to put it out and the end of Vega Tables sounded like the best place to put it. I may have made that up though, I'm not sure!
     
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  10. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    I reckon they merely couldn't find a way to tie the fade part to another song to keep the suite going. The BWPS version of "Vegetables" is rather truncated.

    I really like the fade part too. "Cha cha cha", as Brian said. I'm glad they found a better way to include it on "Smile Sessions", rather than just fading into it on "30 years of Good Vibrations".

    I also always loved the acapella "Send us in your letter" part. I used to always take it from "Smiley Smile" and add it to the 30 Years GV version of "Vegetables". It just seemed like it HAD to go there. I don't know why it wasn't, but it is now.
     
  11. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    No, you're right, I remember someone (pretty sure it was Mr. Doe) stating that someone on the inside told him that that part was meant for "Wind Chimes" or something. Which of course makes no sense. I'm pretty sure it was hearsay or conjecture. It's clearly labelled "Vegetables Fade".
     
  12. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    As a standalone song I might prefer the Smiley Smile version myself.
     
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  13. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    I was surprised that the "Demo" version of "Vegetables" on the Smile Sessions is actually nearly identical in form to the Smiley Smile version, even with the noises and such. So perhaps the idea to integrate the "Mama Says" chants was short lived.

    I have a theory that "The Elements" would have been the "I'm Bugged At My Ol Man" of Smile.

    I'm still 'waiting for the day' they find a tape of the "Mama Says" chants labelled "I'm In Great Shape" so we can finally put that puppy to bed.
     
  14. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    I'm not sure about that. It's too cool!

    Since "Cool Cool Water" was recorded around Wild HOney, I was thinking that "The Elements" might have been something that he planned to spread out over several albums, something like the Homo Safari series by XTC. Only much better.
     
    Daniel Plainview likes this.
  15. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    I've thought about that theory as well. "Cool Water" and "Country Air" could have been "Elements 2 and 3" on Wild Honey or something. That's why I don't sweat just having "The Elements Part 1: Fire" on my Smile disc.

    But what if the "Vegetables Demo" actually IS "Vegetables", as it would have appeared on a January 1967 "Smile" album. What if it would have just been a joke song, with people blowing in bottles and chanting about ocean life (as heard when Brian goofs off with his stoner friends)?

    Now, granted, "Mrs O'Leary's Cow" is wicked awesome and burns this theory to the ground (heh), but maybe that's what killed the whole idea at the end. It stopped being funny and got too serious.
     
  16. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    I also argue with myself if I need to include "Dada". I mean, two weeks later we have that really nice "Cool Cool Water" from the supposed "Smiley Smile era", so why not just use that on our "Smile"?
     
    stijnv and trumpet sounds like this.
  17. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    I actually do believe that that was meant to be the album track. I mean, it makes sense. I think he got tripped up trying to make "Heroes And Villains" a hit (it's actually very clear that that's what happened, if you listen to the sessions in chronological order) and it started cannibalizing all the other songs and then abandoned it for a while and tried to make "Vega-tables" a hit.

    And then kind of started really going off the deep end into minimalism out of boredom or just chasing his tail in ever-decreasing concentric circles.

    I once made four SMiLE albums:
    • A February 67 album (with the "barnyard" Heroes and Villains --I mean the one from the twofers -- and the Vegatables demo
    • a May/June 67 one with single H&V and "Smile" Vegatables,
    • a sort of platonic ideal which is not historical but I just really like, about 45 minutes. This version could have happened in about December 1967, though.
    • And then a "kitchen sink" version that's about 62 minutes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  18. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    Since we're on the subject, I don't think "Bicycle Rider" with the fuzz tone should be in "Do You Like Worms", as that orchestration was recorded in January '67 when Brian was already looking to steal it for "Heroes and Villains". I think it disrupts the song too much.

    As presented on "Sounds of Summer" (which is a cool version, don't get me wrong), I think I'd prefer using the first "Bicycle Rider" chorus thingy both times (without the heavy overdubs, just the piano and the tribal chanting) as it is truer to the original intent of the song. The only problem is there's a troublesome crossfade there. I'll have to find a work around.

    I think on the "Smile Vocal Montage" there is a snippet of the chants with Brian briefly singing "...to the church of the American Indian". I'd like to work that in there somehow.

    One track I leave off of my Smile disc - "Old Master Painter". Yeah, I know, blasphemy, because it's on the handwritten track list and even has a lead vocal.

    But here's the thing... the drumsticks. What in the hell was Brian thinking? This is the worst percussive idea ever, and it just kills the track for me.

    Also, it's hard to put it on the same disc with "Heroes and Villains" (cantina version) because they have the same fade. Granted, I could include "Painter" without the fade, but then it just seems too short to bother with.

    The track makes no sense to me. I mean, surely he was going to do more with this, right? I wonder if he planned on re-recording the song, because as it is it certainly doesn't seem particularly album worthy. It doesn't hold it's own against the likes of "Surfs Up", "Cabin Essence", etc.

    Man, I love talking "Smile", even after all these years. It's a sickness.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  19. muzzer

    muzzer Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    It’s such a great project to get into Smile, and these days it’s more or less all out there, you can pretty much make your own version. Because people either disagree on what BW should have done, or disagree on what was actually done. There are in effect loads of definitive versions. I remember when he started working with DS and the Wondermints, it was a revelation. When they got on to Smile it was the holy grail. Has anyone mentioned the book Look! Listen! Vibrate! Smile? It gives you the flavour of what happened in the 60s - I wasn’t there but use your imagination. How the final pieces slipped thru BW’s fingers. The real tragedy of the 60s. When I saw BW perform Smile in 2004 it topped Pet Sounds. People were crying. History being made and re-made.
     
  20. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    I love that fuzz-tone stuff. But I see your point.

    I kind of like “Master Painter/Sunshine/Barnyard”, but it is a mess. I cant do without “Barnyard” or a Dennis vocal.

    I leave “Great Shape” off. I know there’s some kind of completed version of it out there and that drives me crazy but what we got just ain’t cutting it. Its horrible. It serves no purpose but to disrupt the flow, which is already iffy. It is “psycho-delic” but it sucks.
     
  21. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    And that "Wonderful" remake with the "rock with me Henry" stuff... what the hell is that?!? Hands down the worst track of the entire Smile sessions. Maybe the worst track of the entire Beach Boys 60's decade. I mean... It's just bad. How do you take a beautiful song like "Wonderful" and make it a swinging jazz number? THIS is the tape Brian should have burned! :D

    Does the presence of "Rock with Me Henry" and "Gee" lead us to believe the supposed October vocal session for "I Ran" was actually, you know, the Impalas song and not "Look"? That this is just some sort of clerical error?

    I figure once Brian lifted the "doo doo doo doo doooooooo, doo doo doo" for the end of "Good Vibrations" that "Look" was officially killed off. But that damn October session... it makes no sense.

    That's always been my theory. When a part or concept appears later on someplace else, that means the thing he originally took it from is officially dead.

    So H&V single-handedly killed:

    Old Master Painter (stole the fade-out and the sliding strings idea)

    Do You Like Worms (stole the chorus)

    I'm In Great Shape (stole the 'tape explosion' thing) (and yet Great Shape WAS originally in H&V and was the original tape explosion thing, so now we are officially in a worm hole, ohmygod....)

    If the Durrie Parks acetates are to be believed, it also stole the hammering sounds from "Friday Night" (unless this sequence pre-dates it).

    It may have also temporarily killed "Cabin Essence" by taking... elements... of it's swirling chorus/fade and using it for "H&V" intro/"Bag of Tricks".
     
  22. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    I like that weird “Wonderful tag” at the beginning of the real “Wonderful.”
     
  23. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    Good Vibrations ate Look and “Worms” ate “Holidays” and H&V ate “Worms”.

    But Look, Worms, and Holidays are basically too nice to cut — especially Worms. It’s the soul of the album.

    Maybe an album version of “H&V” Would’ve been completely different to the single.
     
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  24. Zerox

    Zerox Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    One of my dilemmas is over 'Heroes And Villains'. Once I heard the alternative version that was on the GV box and the 'Smiley Smile/Wild Honey' CD, it was transcended from the version I'd known (the original single release), somehow rawer and more kicking.

    Then when I heard the BW version with what I now know of as 'Prelude To Fade'...well, that part was so elegant, so beyond anything I could have imagined that it made my chest pound and maybe even tearful. (How I'd missed its inclusion on the 'Heroes And Villains Sections' on the GV box I'm not sure, but maybe it was hearing it in the right context.)

    But then on the 5 CD Smile Sessions box (which I only got a few months ago, having foolishly thought that the 2 CD would suffice and then realised that the 5 CD set was not readily available, so the waiting game commenced...), there's the rather compelling 'Early Version' (is it really an early version or just a load of sections that could have been an early version? Dunno, but the vocal is different and the whole thing is quite long, both of which are good things!).

    But how should it end? With the section that was stuck on after 'You Were My Sunshine'? I mean, that does fit quite nicely, with the "sunshiiiine" vocals implanted... And yet that same section ended the version which first introduced me to the 'Cantina' version of H&V and although that version could have been longer, it ticked the box nicely for me at the time. But then what about 'Prelude To Fade'?! It has to go at the end, in order to, er, fade! (And thank God BW got rid of those bicycle horns...there's being experimental and then there's just being wrong!)

    Okay, you clever blokes with your fancy audio editing stuff! How about coming up with the ultimate H&V megamix with all the good bits but in a way that is tasteful and not just a 'bung it all in there cuz we couldn't think of where else to put it' manner?

    Don't tell me, there are already a million versions out there....
     
  25. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    What is the “alrernative version?” I mean I know what it is, but what’s the deal with it? I mean, Is that a vintage thing, or something that Linnett put together?
     
    picassoson likes this.
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