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“El Camino- A Breaking Bad Movie” From Creator Vince Gilligan*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by AKA, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Chrome_Head likes this.
  2. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA.
    Well, there's still the matter of how Saul became the lawyer / bag man for Gus. We're most of the way there now. You can argue whether that's something that needs to be shown, but that's kind of the backbone of the whole show.

    It's not like it came out of nowhere--Gus was going to kill off Jesse in S3 wasn't he? And Walt saved him by convincing Jesse to kill Gale. So Gus was going to be down a competent cook. Walt was minimized after this because of the threat to his family. And it took him all season to figure out how to get to and kill Gus.

    If anything, having Walt be the unstoppable Gary Stu Heisenberg in some episodes wasn't convincing to me. He's human and stumbles and makes mistakes.

    Keyser Soze didn't have a Hector Salamanca (that we ever saw). Exacting slow revenge on Hector was Gus' achilles heel, probably his only one, and Walt smartly exploited it and won.
     
  3. GregM

    GregM No static at all

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    Mike was the bagman, and Jimmy was Mike's contact. We already knew this and the details serve no purpose in advancing anything important or relevant. It's purely borrowed interest for those who want to mythologize BB.

    No, Walt saved himself by convincing Jesse to kill Gale. He had convinced Gus to let Jesse cook with him by sidelining Gale after Hank was facing charges for assaulting Jesse--the motivation being to get Jesse to drop the charges by restoring their partnership. This was an idiotic move on Walt's part. They made him riddled with guilt in so many directions that he became an ineffective character. He had already shown himself to be ruthless, so this was a major character break.

    Of course, but their needs to be some symmetry. You can't go from extreme ruthlessness to extremely guilt-ridden in ways that break character for the sake of audience manipulation. That's not being true to the character or the audience.

    Points to an even bigger problem with Gus: he had worked for a lifetime to build a fast food empire--apparently completely legit. The best revenge is living well and Gus had achieved it. The motivation to then manufacture and traffic meth, to play Russian roulette with his life, business and with the DEA made no sense. Even holding a grudge for decades would not explain a successful businessman making the decisions Fring made in BB. And Keyser Soze did indeed have the Hungarian crew analogous to the Salamancas. Usual Suspects had impeccable writing and production in character arc and symmetry, which is why I brought it up.
     
  4. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA.
    I think it was interesting glimpse at Gus' interior--behind the super-competent crime lord mask and his community-friendly business owner mask, he too is human and flawed. Hector and the cartel took his partner from him (who was also intimated to be his lover). He was able to have both his good life and his slow revenge on Hector.

    Well, what I meant was, Soze didn't have an achilles heel akin to a Hector Salamanca. He was such an edgelord, he killed his own family who were being used as hostages.

    I agree The Usual Suspects is a classic, but that's a one and done movie, and Gus and BB is something we have to spend far more time with as viewers. If Gus was an unstoppable, ruthless Keyser Soze, there wouldn't be much satisfaction in Walt's victory over him.
     
  5. GentleSenator

    GentleSenator what if

    Location:
    Aloha, OR
    jumping in a little late to this ongoing conversation, but wanted to say that i find your thoughts very accurate.

    when the show was airing i was very let down by the killing off of gus and i felt like something was wrong with me.

    during my recent attempt to rewatch the show, i started to feel irritated by some of the things you've been referencing in your posts. in fact, i just couldn't even finish the series. just too much sloppiness.
     
    GregM likes this.
  6. riverclown

    riverclown Someone left the cake out in the rain.

    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    I re-watched BB a couple months ago and thoroughly enjoyed it.

    I don't think Walt's insistence on having Jesse as assistant instead of Gale (to stop the lawsuit against Hank) was some sort of character break, and it didn't bother me. Walt was always severely concerned about family and not wanting them to suffer from his actions. Hank was family. Also, Skyler was questioning Walt's strength because he wasn't seeming to be able to do anything about the lawsuit. I just viewed this as part of the emotional conflict of a recently decent guy breaking bad. Yes partnering with Jesse created problems but in the balancing process he weighed the problems as worth it to make the family happy and help Hank. Walt's character was consistent - he never broke so bad that he would want harm to befall his family.
     
    Chrome_Head likes this.
  7. GregM

    GregM No static at all

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    Yes, it was one thing to make Gus a centerpiece of BB, but to reintroduce him into BCS was even more irritating since we already know his story and it doesn't pass the sniff test.

    I didn't say that was the character break; it was part of the slow train wreck where everyone broke character. Walt always pretended to be severely concerned about family and not wanting them to suffer. But in fact he was self-centered from beginning to end. And, as written, he chose to manipulate rather than own it.

    This was a manipulation he finally owns at the end, in his last visit to Skyler, when he admits he never was motivated by family. He just wanted to be a crime overlord, make more money than anyone else, neutralize every threat, generate more revenues than Grey Matter, and never be questioned.
     
    GentleSenator likes this.
  8. riverclown

    riverclown Someone left the cake out in the rain.

    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    I don't view it as a manipulation or as anything that made me feel deceived. I suspected it all along in fact.

    There were many times he did show genuine emotion about family. E.g., in Ozymandias, his concern for Hank was genuine and he was even willing to give up all his money to save Hank. There were other instances of genuine emotion for family that didn't seem like his caring was inwardly all about himself. The fact that he said what he said in the finale does not preclude that he also cared for his family or that that genuine care could be a motivating force in other ways. I don't see a manipulation in that regard. Looked like realistic plot development, not some sort of tricky manipulation.
     
    formu_la, Chrome_Head and alexpop like this.
  9. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Saved Pinkman. (Last episode )
     
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  10. GregM

    GregM No static at all

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    It was manipulation by the show--the writing--that put Walt consistently in the position where he had to express that concern (however it may or may not have resonated with you). The story became too much directionless manipulation and shaggy dog stories piled on top of each other rather than character dev, facing universal themes (e.g., about mortality) that would more profoundly move the show along and impact the audience. The greatest shows succeed at this--and my frustration with BB is that it could have, and should have. But it didn't. Still a fantastic show. It took big risks but ultimately chose manipulation and camp rather than challenge itself on a deeper level. I thought the smoking man, black oil and other elements of X-Files also were brilliant tropes that similarly failed to be paid off. I'd like to see Gilligan succeed on some more critical level of conception.
     
  11. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    I thought he accomplished that with BB myself.
     
  12. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Best season of BCS?
    I’d say season 5.
    Hey ! Bob Odenkirk agrees. :)
     
  13. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Vince Gilligan recent 4 year deal with Sony, doesn’t mean .. just season 6, of Better Call Saul. Open speculation of what he’s going to work on after BCS. As he already has characters from BB&BCS ... I could see him working on that possibility rather than start something new.
     
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  14. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA.
    After rewatching the series for the first time up to 5, I’d have to say the first is still my favorite.

    I’d rank them so far thusly:

    S1
    S3
    S5
    S4
    S2
     
  15. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    After watching El Camino three times now( haven’t got a life :)), got me thinking this should have been a series itself
    Runtime 122m was to short I wanted more.
     
  16. GregM

    GregM No static at all

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    There was no story to tell. When we last saw Jesse at the end of BB, he was free, running from the law, his future wide open--it felt like the right way to end his arc. Then we get this. It changed the equation by making him less free, fewer places to run, his future now tied to Nowheresville, Alaska. It cheapened Jesse's ending and for what?

    Now people are clamoring for even less of a story just to have another BB-related borrowed-interest nothingburger to watch? No thanks.
     
  17. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Could not agree more. Breaking Bad was so awesome, and the fact that it was the perfect length was a big reason why. It wasn't one of those shows that felt like it went on too long. Better Call Saul, as underwhelming as I think it is, is fine as a prequel, but El Camino was needlessly going back to the well again, and now some want even more? Hell no.
     
    MikeInFla, TheSeldomSeenKid and GregM like this.
  18. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    I thought most folk liked El Caminio?
    Least it was popular.
    I enjoyed it. More ? Yep ! I could handle another series of sorts.
     

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