Electric Light Orchestra - Secret Messages as originally intended

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by peterpyser, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. peterpyser

    peterpyser Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I am very curious knowing all the possible details that surround the 'Secret Messages' project.
    I know it was originally conceived as a double LP.
    Any info from the ELO experts here on the forum is welcome.
  2. Comet01

    Comet01 Forum Resident

    ShardEnder is the expert on this topic.
    I'm sure that he will be generous with the details!
  3. ampmods

    ampmods Forum Resident

    Boston, MA, USA
    It is a double album. To hear the 2nd disc, you have to spin the first one backwards! :)
  4. ampmods

    ampmods Forum Resident

    Boston, MA, USA
  5. cincyjim

    cincyjim Forum Resident

    Cincinnati, Ohio

    01. Secret Messages - 4:51
    02. Loser Gone Wild- 5:17
    03. Bluebird - 4:13
    04. Take Me On And On - 5:02
    05. Stranger - 4:30
    06. No Way Out - 3:27
    07. Beatles Forever - 4:30
    08. Letter From Spain - 2:59
    09. Danger Ahead - 3:47
    10. Four Little Diamonds- 4:12
    11. Train Of Gold - 4:22
    12. Endless Lies - 3:35
    13. Buildings Have Eyes - 4:04
    14. Rock 'n' Roll Is King - 3:10
    15. Mandalay- 5:20
    16. Time After Time - 3:56
    17. After All- 0:41
    18. Hello My Old Friend - 8:37
    19. (Welcome to the show outro)
    mur, tug_of_war and denesis like this.
  6. What is it they say about speaking of the devil? You have been warned!

    Secret Messages is by far the one album I’ve written more about than any other, yet criminally it still remains officially unreleased in the version as originally intended by Jeff Lynne. To the best of my knowledge, here is the history of its troubled inception… During the European leg of the Time Tour (presumably in February 1982), Lynne was in the process of checking out local studios to find one suitable for ELO to quickly record several of his ideas for a proposed double album that would feature one disc of new material and the other being highlights from an earlier live show.

    Now, this is where things become complicated for the first of many instances. Depending on the source, plans for this live portion were either abandoned due to performance or technical issues. Some claim the live material would have been compiled from various concerts on the 1981 leg of the on-going tour, while others have suggested this disc would have simply been an edited version of the Wembley ’78 show that later turned up on CD and VHS through Jet Records (using a copy of the mono broadcast tape, no less) without Jeff’s consent that may very well have been prepared years before.

    Being intended only for the band to hear on the night, this mix had pre-recorded elements riding high in the mix and was only played out to audiences when instruments inevitably went out of tune, which happened frequently when the cellos and violin solos were expected, it seems. While there’s no denying that some aspects of ELO’s supposed “live” sound were augmented with tapes, until the more recent restoration of this concert using the multi-tracks, the myth remained that Lynne’s band were miming their way through huge parts of their shows – we can now hear that this was never the case.

    Whatever the reality, Jeff’s plan for a half-live double album didn’t need to happen as he’d now penned enough songs to fill the provisionally titled Unexpected Moments with two discs of new ELO studio content. Dropping into Wisseloord Studios in Hilversum, Holland with Richard Tandy, he recorded a handful of brief acoustic soundchecks that were completed for the 2000 Flashback compilation as Grieg’s Piano Concerto In A Minor (or Ballbuster, as it says on the tape box) and Who’s That, the latter prominently featuring a certain bodily function “played” using the pitch altering capabilities of the Fairlight CMI synthesiser!

    Impressed with the results, Lynne returned to Wisseloord in the autumn of ’82 after the end of the Time Tour with the core four-man line up of ELO to record at least five new songs, including Loser Gone Wild, No Way Out, Train Of Gold, Motor Factory and Beatles Forever, the last being Jeff’s definitive tribute to John Lennon after the show-stopping medley performed during his last series of concerts, also following 21st Century Man on the Time album itself. Indeed, bass guitarist and background vocalist Kelly Groucutt was even quoted as saying that the band was so proud of Beatles Forever that it would be the lead single from its next project.

    At this point, a number of problems occurred that were significant for the group. First of all, Groucutt pursued legal action against Lynne for what he felt was an unfair wage as somebody who had contributed significantly to the ELO sound. Settling out of court for just £300k, he was dismissed as a session musician, though he did return to film two videos and appear in a handful of promotional images, though he was not in the studio by October ’82 when members of the German fan club stopped by to visit the group, with Kelly’s absence blamed on him already leaving for the day.

    In reality, ELO had already been reduced down to the core trio of Lynne, Tandy and original co-founding drummer, Bev Bevan. However, they were still joined by recent touring addition Dave Morgan and Louis Clark, who had returned after taking a brief leave for the Time sessions – to be replaced by Rainer Pietsch – because of prior commitments relating to the success of his own venture, Hooked On Classics. Furthermore, violinist Mik Kaminski made a brief cameo on Motor Factory playing a heavily-processed solo that was treated using the AMS RMX 16 digital effects rack that Lynne had become obsessed with.

    The advance in technology-driven effects was how this album would sound compared to Time, which had actually been mostly the core group augmented with string parts and keyboard overdubs. Tracks like outtake/b-side When Time Stood Still and Ticket To The Moon were recorded virtually live, though Twilight or Here Is The News demonstrated that Lynne hadn’t entirely given up on the classic ‘70s style “kitchen sink” approach. When long time engineer Reinhold Mack left over a dispute about the amount of compression Jeff wanted on Time, previous acquaintance Bill Bottrell stepped in to help record Hold On Tight.

    As someone rooted in the Nashville scene, Bottrell continued in his capacity for the album now called Secret Messages, urging Jeff to concentrate more on guitar and overall texture, although Lynne still described his role in this period as that of a “secretary” making “push-button music.” Regardless of this, there is little doubt that Secret Messages was an even more organic production than previous efforts, even if ELO’s leader was experimenting with reverb devices, samplers and even a growing dependence on drum machines, with Bevan now mainly hitting cymbals or providing roto tom accompaniments.

    However, not one to completely alienate his most faithful colleague and aware that Bevan favoured playing live, Bev was given two notable opportunities to be let off his proverbial leash, demonstrating his thunderous playing on the solo heard in the middle of Danger Ahead and the second half of Hello My Old Friend – a song that deserves discussion at a much greater level, which I will come to later in this post. For now, credit should also be given to Kelly’s double bass work on No Way Out and Dave Morgan’s convincing Merseyside accent during Beatles Forever, which serves as perhaps his single most audible contribution to an ELO track.

    With only two releases left of his contract under Jet Records, Lynne had anticipating using a double album as a way of prematurely escaping the record-tour cycle of ELO’s later existence for years, going back to plans for Time, where the second disc would have been a live concert (perhaps even the same Wembley ’78 performance covered previously). Knowing this would mean Secret Messages was to become ELO’s last studio project, he intended to end with a song that would deliberately serve as the other bookend to the band’s first song, 10538 Overture.

    By far his single most ambitious composition in ten years, Hello My Old Friend was supposedly recorded by Lynne in a demo form (along with Letter From Spain, which made the final album in its original solo form) and always meant to close Secret Messages. Waving goodbye to his hometown of Birmingham and ELO, it is littered with various references to his past, including lyrics that visually depicted the cover artwork along with looped calls of “Spatch and Mail” (for those who don’t know, the Dispatch & Mail is a local newspaper, with street vendors often shouting its name in this way).

    Just as ELO picked up where The Beatles had left off with I Am The Walrus before turning to a more basic style in 1968, Hello My Old Friend reaches a climax that not only directly quotes the descending guitar riff of 10538 Overture, but also the descent into cacophony of Lennon’s piece, even borrowing a string passage from The Diary Of Horace Wimp in the process. Throughout this incredible late period masterpiece, Lynne also throws in tape distorted field recordings made outside the studio in Holland, with the most obvious being a chorus of school children singing Frère Jacques.

    As someone who would later go on to produce the leader of The Beach Boys, it should be noted that Hello My Old Friend could also be seen as including a subtle nod to Brian Wilson’s use of the melody and English translation of this same nursery rhyme in a track considered one of his most significant, Surf’s Up. Furthermore, Letter From Spain is a remarkable example of how much Lynne had learned from Wilson, consisting of mostly layers vocals over a basic keyboard arrangement reminiscent of Brian’s own minimalist work during most of the late ‘60s and extending through to the Love You album, issued in early ’77.

    Back on track again, Lynne struggled with one song idea from around this period. A soft, Middle-Eastern themed melody, After All was first recorded with a full vocal sung through a vocoder, possibly to make this stand out more against the similar Letter From Spain. Shelving this approach, he would later resurrect the track on Flashback as Tears In Your Life, mostly replacing his lead – though not the musical backing – with a three part harmony. At the time, After All remained an instrumental, initially trimmed to just a 40-second introduction to Hello My Old Friend then resurfacing in extended form as a single flipside and again as the basis of Night Calls, produced for Joe Cocker in the early ‘90s.

    Long before the sessions commenced for Secret Messages, Jeff guided the rest of ELO through many of his new compositions during rehearsals in the surroundings of his home, resulting in a tape that was found by official archivist Rob Caiger several years ago under the rather descriptive name of The Garden Rehearsals. According to Richard Tandy, this may have been the source for Jeff’s own demo of Hello My Old Friend, described by the pianist as being even more elaborate than the final studio version! Apart from these few details, not much is known about this mythical tape.

    What can be assumed is that it more than likely featured another song heavily influenced by Jeff’s hometown… With the sound of hammers striking a lathe as its percussive backbeat, revving engines audible in the chorus and lyrics penned from the perspective of staff at the Longbridge industrial complex, Motor Factory was victim to Jeff’s endless pursuit for perfection, its lead vocal erased in favour of a more autobiographical tale about a disillusioned rock and roll singer named Johnny before this was again taken off, only to be replaced by what became the eventual lead single, Rock ‘N’ Roll Is King.

    Desperate for his rockier side to be represented, Secret Messages also includes Four Little Diamonds, a heavier song also issued as a standalone promotional track with its musical cues leaning heavily on idols such as Roy Orbison and Del Shannon, maybe even taking a few cues from his contemporary work for Dave Edmunds, who visited Wisseloord while ELO was there to produce his Information album. As for the other songs on Secret Messages, the title track is another harder number, while Bluebird and Time After Time feature more sampling, the latter showcasing Jeff’s then-wife Sandi on vocals. Loser Gone Wild and Four Little Diamonds also play host to cameos from Dennis the dog, who provides sampled barking!

    Believed to be just as much of a solo piece as Letter From Spain, the brooding Mandalay could be mistaken for any other band than ELO had it been released anonymously, with Lynne’s vocals far deeper than usual. Highlighting the elasticity of his voice, Endless Lies was a deliberate attempt at emulating Roy Orbison’s signature style, a less bombastic version of this song appearing on the 1986 Balance Of Power album once Mack had returned from his brief leave to provide the necessary adjustments to its mix. Also, the lush Stranger, cosmic Take Me On And On and playful Buildings Have Eyes round out the set.

    Finally, on March 4th 1983, Lynne headed out to Allen Zentz Recording in Los Angeles to compile Secret Messages, mastering a set of three discs, the first two containing a preliminary sequence for the double album and the last various alternate takes, single mixes or outtakes (of these, Helpless was yet another completed in 2000 for the Flashback collection). Just days later, on the 11th, Jeff was returning home with the following revised tracklist, its label indicating this was intended for Jet Records, who had already assigned the serial code of DP 402 for:

    SIDE A
    Secret Messages/Loser Gone Wild/Bluebird/Take Me On And On

    SIDE B
    Stranger/No Way Out/Beatles Forever/Letter From Spain/Danger Ahead

    SIDE C
    Four Little Diamonds/Train Of Gold/Endless Lies/Buildings Have Eyes/Rock ‘N’ Roll Is King

    SIDE D
    Mandalay/Time After Time/After All/Hello My Old Friend

    Using the oil crisis as their excuse (even though it was clear they wanted to milk ELO as the biggest commercial draw at a time their own finances were running out), Jet rejected this proposed sequence along with its cover design, which can now only be found in the form of a rare poster. Featuring a hidden message written in Braille plus the image of two businessmen shaking hands (reminiscent of Pink Floyd’s Wish You Were Here, though actually based on an early lyric from an alternate version of Balance Of Power era b-side Caught In A Trap, which best describes Lynne’s strained relationship with his record label), it was replaced by a modified picture by HAG entitled “The Future’s A Bit Fishy. We’ve Got A Hand In It.”

    Curiously, of the four original sides, the first made the transition to what became JET LX 527 intact, perhaps because so many of its songs are linked in such a way that separating them would have been a crime. Despite their cramming of six further songs onto the second side, Jet saw fit to neglect all of side four, with the exception of Time After Time, which found its way onto the cassette and compact disc editions as a bonus track. Also, the ending to Hello My Old Friend was recycled onto the end of Rock ‘N’ Roll Is King, at least giving the whole package some of its intended conceptual unity.

    Over the following years, all of the remaining outtakes have found their way onto CD, with the exception of the original 40-second After All and complete mix of Hello My Old Friend. Of course, no analysis of this album would be truly comprehensive without mentioning the fact that of the 18 songs Jeff Lynne wanted to release back in ’83, only Beatles Forever now remains firmly locked away in the vault, although it has leaked due to Rob Caiger playing an acetate before the Zoom Tour Live filming at a fan convention meeting then more recently, rumoured to have been sourced from a safety tape of the whole album in Bill Bottrell’s possession.

    Noted collector Rob Ford parted ways with his own “unmatched” set of acetates a few years ago, the second being from the earlier banding attempt, meaning that any effort to reconstruct Secret Messages in its entirety requires some editing. Presumably the single mix of Rock ‘N’ Roll Is King needs to be used, and I personally favour the slightly longer version of Four Little Diamonds from the deleted Afterglow box, which adds a few extra seconds of pre-song warm up sounds that were actually created in the studio by Lynne alone, though once wrongly believed to have been a teaser from The Garden Rehearsals.

    For an album called Secret Messages, Jeff certainly didn’t disappoint, even going as far as to warn listeners of the reversed backwards clips he’d included (though frustratingly, his American distributors saw fit to remove this from US editions – he would later address this matter on the radio show Rockline, suggesting it was a knee jerk reaction after ELO were branded devil worshippers for their use of backmasking on Eldorado in particular, which he later dismissed as “Skcollob.”) Whether prescience or pure coincidence, there are multiple clues pointing to the exact month that Lynne eventually disbanded the group!

    What can be more certain are the musical secret messages that were scattered throughout this album, starting with the unlisted bookend piece that also serves as its outro, only reversed in that instance. Known as Welcome To The Show due to its most prominent audible voice, its title can even be found on the promotional poster I mentioned before, and with a little hard work can be reintegrated onto the climax of Hello My Old Friend in its intended place thanks to a subtle clue left by the mastering engineer who saw fit to fade out this song early for its exclusive inclusion on the Afterglow compilation from 1990.

    I won’t list all of the documented hidden phrases on Secret Messages here as I’d be writing all day (and I’ve already done far more than I’d originally anticipated), but it’s safe to say fans wouldn’t have been too worried by what they found. Just as the instance of backmasking during the introduction to Fire On High on Face The Music proved to be relatively harmless yet disturbing sounding when reversed, Bev Bevan’s urge to plant a tree or Jeff Lynne thanking you for listening and warning that you were playing the album in reverse were hardly going to generate controversy. At a time he could quite easily have stopped caring about ELO, it was good to see Jeff still capable of having fun.

    Unfortunately, any levity didn’t last. Disappointed at his final statement as ELO being cut down in such a way that he would still be contractually obliged to deliver one further album, Lynne retreated – with Tandy – into solo work, continuing to produce for Dave Edmunds and contributing three songs to the Electric Dreams soundtrack. Of these, Video! recycled the chorus to Beatles Forever, Let It Run would have fit right in on the shortest final side of Secret Messages in its double album form and Sooner Or Later was a stylistic preview of the “less is more” direction that started with Balance Of Power.

    Disbanding the group apart from to shoot promotional clips for Secret Messages and Rock ‘N’ Roll Is King (the latter showing the band playing on a stage painted with a pentagram on its floor – a detail few seemed to have taken notice of back in ‘83!), Lynne didn’t tour in support of what he considered an album butchered for political reasons, only making a sole interview appearance on Rockline before retreating for a while. By the time he was ready to officially bring ELO to an end, the only real pretence was in having live keyboardists mime cello parts for playback televised performances.

    To my knowledge, Jeff personally vetoed the release of Secret Messages in its complete form back in 2001 when the album was first remastered, and it should be noted this version has minor dropouts on Stranger and Train Of Gold that were not present originally, suggesting that a less than ideal tape was used for this edition. Also, until this error was quickly corrected, the earliest pressings featured the wrong mix of Rock ‘N’ Roll Is King, losing the single album ending as discussed previously.

    Although promises were made by Rob Caiger, the 30th anniversary of Secret Messages passed without even an announcement of a 2CD Deluxe Edition on the Legacy imprint, despite his earlier proposal to Jeff Lynne, who presumably again turned down the opportunity because of Beatles Forever needing to be included. In the past, he has spoken of either rewriting the lyrics or tackling the entire song again in a more personally satisfying remake, describing the original lyrics as “fawning” and too much of an embarrassment.

    Ironically, one of the biggest reasons it’s claimed Jeff has problems with Beatles Forever is that none of its lyrical or musical references to various songs were compositions by George Harrison, who later became one of his closest friends. However, the very first line directly mentions Something, though it is assumed this was either not intended by Lynne or he simply hasn’t noticed. While it’s definitely not his greatest musical statement, as a tribute it’s definitely heartfelt and worth hearing in an officially sanctioned version.

    On the other hand, there have also been persisting rumours that Caiger had Jeff’s necessary signature and the approval of Sony, with the planned release (which was to include the full 18 track sequencing on disc one with the second an expansion of the 2001 remaster containing a fixed transfer plus highlights from the third acetate – possibly even selections from The Garden Rehearsals) blocked due to Lynne signing with Frontiers, taking focus of his previous label’s efforts.

    At this rate, we can probably expect Secret Messages to simply trickle out either as a fully approved restoration without much fanfare or the handful of remaining tracks being added to future archival/compilation type releases, allowing fans to better “roll their own” versions, similar to how SMiLE, Lifehouse and Songs From The Black Hole are now able to be mostly assembled by enthusiasts. Alternatively, could it be that the lack of any post-Discovery tracks on the Mr. Blue Sky album is because Jeff’s remade his ‘80s hits for a sequel, maybe including Beatles Forever as a bonus?

    Sorry for such a lengthy post, but you did ask for help and I’m absolutely flattered that some of you consider me an expert on this album. As someone who’s recently upgraded my own restoration of Secret Messages using a newly-found higher quality source of Beatles Forever and another previously unknown rarity I’ve chosen to include on an additional disc, all I really want to do is help others, hopefully showing Rob Caiger, Jeff Lynne and the powers that be at Sony there IS demand for this as an official release.
  7. Calico

    Calico Forum Resident

    Wonderfully informative post. Thanks a lot, ShardEnder!
    fer2, tug_of_war, stuwee and 3 others like this.
  8. Helmut

    Helmut Well-Known Member

    I really love ELO and the Move, but with all respect - this is the weakest excuse for ELO using playbacks. I have heard several audience bootlegs from that tour and it's always the backing tapes up front with some additional live sounds. And Lynne did the same at his recent Hyde Park show, where the songs used his own re-recordings as the basis. I don't know why Lynne always does that, ELO could really play live as many recordings before "Out of the Blue" have shown. Obviously the "No risk - no fun" attitude of all great live bands somewhere got lost on his way.
    jay.dee, Dave and melstapler like this.
  9. nbakid2000

    nbakid2000 On Indie's Cutting Edge

    Springfield, MO
    @ShardEnder what unknown rarity are you referring to?
  10. bRETT

    bRETT Forum Resident

    Boston MA
    The Zoom tour DVD sounds pretty augmented too (or fleshed out afterwards), esp. since there's only two string players onstage. Fascinating story on Secret Messages though.
  11. From what I can tell, Jeff first started using backing tapes on the tour in support of Face The Music, which can probably be heard best on the Fusion concert video, where the Eldorado Overture is augmented with the studio recording until Can't Get It Out Of My Head begins. Of course, it's the Wembley '78 show that best highlights just how bad this got - I certainly don't agree with recent (and possibly revisionist) claims this was a mix only ever intended for the musicians, as bootlegs do indeed confirm that the same tape heavy balance was played out to audiences. With two cellists, a violinist and Richard Tandy performing from behind a bank of keyboards, plus an uncredited Jake Commander also contributing background vocals, guitar and keyboards, there was absolute no reason why the live ELO couldn't do a decent job of recreating their albums on stage. In fact, apart from the Prologue being pre-recorded, I don't hear any further tapes on the Time Tour or the handful of live concerts from '86... well, maybe not their mimed television appearances, though none of these were full sets.

    More recently, the use of pre-recorded elements during the Hyde Park show was completely puzzling, especially as Lynne is now surrounding himself with a far larger number of musicians. Sure, I can appreciate that Richard's old vocoder wasn't always the most reliable and that cellos often slip out of tune, but with modern technology he can't keep hiding behind these excuses. My guess is that he's simply too much of a perfectionist to let a few mistakes creep through, and being someone who prefers the studio environment to playing live, this seems highly likely. On the other hand, the Zoom Tour Live recording almost entirely lived up to its description, although I'm not certain whether the songs finally issued long after this video was filmed were treated to any overdubbing in post production. For all the stories of him actually enjoying more of those last three albums than he'd ever admit, Jeff Lynne clearly stopped having fun on stage as early as 1975. Indeed, I'd even be willing to go as far as to say that part of the band's spark left with Mike De Albuquerque the previous year...
  12. bRETT

    bRETT Forum Resident

    Boston MA
    Some of the backing vox sounded suspect (unless Rosie Vela is really good), but I'll take your word. But do you know why in the world there wasn't a violin in this lineup?
  13. Carlox

    Carlox Forum Resident

    Woow!!! :eek:
    Thank you very much, for this wonderful answer, ShardEnder.:)
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
    GerryO and NYMets41 like this.
  14. The two cellists on the Zoom Tour Live DVD were boosted by Richard Tandy playing some string parts on a keyboard, plus my personal choice for Jeff's real unsung hero - just check out Marc Mann controlling violin samples through his guitar at points, which I believe was hooked up to a MIDI triggering rig (according to an interview). In addition to this, Marc also had a keyboard, so I've no reason to doubt much of this concert was the actual live band. If Mr. Blue Sky himself was so concerned with attaining some kind of artificial perfection, why did he let such an epic mistake as his lyrical slip during Tightrope make it onto the final product?

    P.S. The previously undocumented rarity I was referring to before is an early instrumental from the Electric Dreams sessions, which found its way onto a vintage trailer for that film. As this material better fits on Secret Messages as opposed to Balance Of Power, it was decided in a discussion elsewhere that I could use this as further bonus content for my own deluxe edition of the restored double album.
    william341, Bfunkthe1, stuwee and 3 others like this.
  15. graystoke

    graystoke Forum Resident

    Nice, informative post but for me, Secret Messages is the second worst ELO album (Balance Of Power is the worst). Coming after the great Time album this one was a major disappointment. There wasn't enough good songs for a single album let alone a double. And Beatles Forever is horrible. Jeff was right when he said it was an "embarrassment".
    Fullbug and Huck Caton like this.
  16. bRETT

    bRETT Forum Resident

    Boston MA
    Ah, thanks...amd that probably answers why there wasn't a violin.
  17. Don't forget that the Bissonette brothers were also on vocal duties - I'm not sure whether it was Gregg or Matt, but one of them was definitely helping out with the falsetto parts during the chorus of Tightrope.

    As for the absence of violins, I'd love to know what Jeff was thinking on the actual Zoom studio album as well, since the absence of such a key component in the ELO sound was painfully obvious around that era.
    william341 and bRETT like this.
  18. As much as I love Secret Messages (and the story behind its creation, you might have noticed!), I can't think of any title that could have followed Time and not been a disappointment - even Out Of The Blue or Eldorado would have been a step down to me, since that one is actually my favourite ELO album.

    Also, while it's something I've never thought of doing, not being a fan of the "less is more" approach, Secret Messages was easy to condense into a solid single album. The problem is that Jet didn't break up the first side and left some of the best casualties from the reduction off the second half. Buildings Have Eyes and Hello My Old Friend are the two I'd put back on, quite happily dropping Letter From Spain, Train Of Gold and Rock 'N' Roll Is King to make this happen... In fact, why not just switch the last three songs with two far better ones, ending with the originally intended climax?
    william341, Simon A and Pizza like this.
  19. peterpyser

    peterpyser Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Many thanks ShardEnder for the incredible info you provided about this ELO album.
    Now i'm gonna read it again a couple of times more to better take note of everything you've written!
    Calico likes this.
  20. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    New England
    Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.
    Maybe the full album would be better received if it were released as originally sequenced. Context can be everything. Imagine Concerto For A Rainy Day broken up among two sides.
  21. Manalishi

    Manalishi With the 2-pronged crown

    New Hampshire
    I need more detail.
  22. Calico

    Calico Forum Resident

    So the song "The Bouncer", a bonus track released on the "Four Little Diamonds" 12" single, wasn't even considered for the double LP version of the "Secret Messages" album?
    simon1966 likes this.
  23. Despite its sound being more consistent with the Secret Messages era, The Bouncer was actually an outtake from the Time sessions, recorded late into the album's creation and intended to be its closing track (until Jeff wrote Hold On Tight at the very last minute with a different engineer, as I mentioned before). Contrary to a long-standing rumour, this song wasn't remixed for its inclusion as a b-side to the Four Little Diamonds 12" single, but could only be found in the vault by Rob Caiger in its original form. Until a higher quality source of Beatles Forever surfaced, I used The Bouncer in its place, since there really isn't anywhere you can put this in the Time sequencing without undermining the vastly superior Hold On Tight, not to say that I prefer one over the other - it's just that I find it more sylistically fitting on Secret Messages.
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  24. longaway

    longaway Forum Resident

    Charlotte, NC, USA
    ShardEnder - Excellent posts! Thank you!
    RickH likes this.
  25. privit1

    privit1 Forum Resident

    wasnt 'The Bouncer' from the 'Time' period it was a Time CD bonus track
    simon1966 likes this.

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