Electric Light Orchestra/The Move/Jeff Lynne

I thought the original "Do Ya" was pretty neat, myself.

ED

 

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Sorry, from your initial post I incorrectly assumed you were looking to buy some Move, not that you already had it all!

I still think you should get Exotic Mixture for lots of solo Roy singles and B-sides and NO(!) Wizzard tracks.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Electric Light Orchestra/The Move/Jeff Lynne

Well actually, no, you're not entirely incorrect. My original reason for the post was regarding the best sounding versions of the Move and ELO discs. For example, I don't yet have the DCC version of "Eldorado", although I have heard it and it's obviously superior. I have the latest remaster with bonus tracks, as is the case with most of the catalog except for "Discovery" which I have on Sony Mastersound gold disc. I was hoping for some insight into comparisons between the original US ELO discs, the newer remasters, and the Japanese discs in terms of what sounds best. Also, the same goes for the Move discs. There are several versions out there and all of my Move stuff is either on compilations or the box set. I'm wondering if the various issues of the individual albums sound markedly better.

Regarding the Roy wood singles disc...I know it's kind of a goofy collection and Exotic Mixture is better. The reason I have the cd that I do is because I found it really cheap at a local used store. Eventually, I'd like to have everything Roy ever touched on cd. My inventory list was missing a few titles also. I have some other things on vinyl and a later Roy Wood cd whose title has slipped my mind at the moment.

Roy Wood vs Jeff Lynne: I can see how someone would be into Roy for writing darker or quirkier songs, but when I speak of GENIUS, you have to understand what my point of reference is. I am into melody and pop-perfect song structure. For me, that is the be all end all in terms of genius. The Beatles are the blueprint for this. They are the ULTIMATE tunesmiths. For this reason, I prefer Jeff Lynne's work to Roy Wood, Andy Partridge of XTC to Lou Reed, Nikki Sixx of Motley Crue to Ornette Coleman, Freddie Mercury to Brian Eno, and so on. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy the music of all of these artists, it's just that the word "genius" to me means a different thing than it does to most people and for me it all comes back those magically perfect pop gems. In my world, John Lennon is a genius. Albert Ayler is not. This is only my personal interpretation and means absolutely nothing, of course.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Electric Light Orchestra/The Move/Jeff Lynne

That's why I used the word "incorrectly" in my last post!!

We are very much on the same wavelength here prix! That's why I love the Beatles and Brian Wilson.......AND Roy Wood.

For me you won't find more perfect slices of joyous, melodic pop music genius than Night Of Fear, I Can Hear The Grass Grow, Flowers In The Rain, Fire Brigade, Blackberry Way etc.

Don't get me wrong, I love Jeff's early ELO stuff but it just wasn't as brilliantly ORIGINAL and INSPIRED as Roy's early material.

 

"Genius" is too broad a term.

You guys are into melodic geniuses.

To me, what defines a musical genius is anybody who can write something, take vocals/instruments, and make a final whole that is MUCH greater than the sum of it's parts.

Brian Wilson did it with session musicians and five voices.

Jeff Lynne did it with a rock band, strings, and a recording studio.

Captain Beefheart did it with two slide guitars, a bass and drums.

Jimi hendrix did it with a guitar, etc....

All I'm saying is that there are different types of geniuses, that's all.

 

Wait, wait, wait...so the ELO 2-disc set on EMI's worth getting?

I have the first album as "No Answer" on some budget disc somewhere...doesn't sound too good.

-D

 

Early ELO could have sounded incredible.

The no-noise killed it IMO.

 

But how does it sound compare to the new Delxue edition / "First Light" master?

 

Don't have "First Light" Deluxe edition.

Heard it was no-noised so I passed.

Anyone else know??

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Electric Light Orchestra/The Move/Jeff Lynne

Actually, no... I LOVE the Beatles and I merely like the Stones. I do like Little Richard better than Jerry Lee Lewis, though (California Man reference there). As far as I'm concerned Shazam is the best Move album. Roy's a genius. Nothing against Jeff Lynne, I just don't think he really hit his stride as a songwriter until ELO (except for Do Ya), whereas Roy was firing on all cylinders in the Move days.

 

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See, to me that fits the ELO Jeff. But the Message from the Country Jeff wrote heavy, ponderous, LONG songs that don't seem poppy to me at all. And they're okay, but the catchy songs that stick in my head from that album are the Roy songs.

 

Has anybody heard the Millenium Edition of "Out of the Blue" that comes in a mini gatefold sleeve? I think it's a UK import maybe? How does the mastering compare to the original US cd?

 

I have this one.

It's a bit more more open in the soundstage than the domestic CD.

Still prefer my Japanese CD overall. More analogue sounding to these ears, but the UK Millenium Edition ain't bad.

 

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To me it seems the exact opposite. Roy's songs are either novelty songs, or heavy, wanky, proggy soggies. His songs are good, but I wouldn't call them catchy pop songs. Jeffs tunes aren't exactly 2 1/2 minute tarts either, but he clearly shines on "Message..". For example, the closest thing to a pop song on the album is probably "Words of Aaron". That's a great song! And don't forget the "Message..." era single "Down On the Bay". Now THAT is a pop song!

 

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Since we've been having this discussion, I've been listening to my Move box set and you are definitely right about one thing....Roy Wood is a GENIUS. Him and Jeff are so close in the early days. To say that you don't think Jeff really "hit his stride as a songwriter until ELO" indicates to me that you've not heard the Idle Race material. For every '60s Wood song, I could easily name a '60s Lynne song that is of equal melodic savvy. Then into the early '70s, Roy Wood lost it. Sure he wrote some brilliant songs, but nothing compared to Lyyne. Jeff's head exploded and he hasn't stopped since (have you heard "Zoom"??!!). Even in the early days, if you listen to the Idle Race stuff, Jeff's work has that special something....that effortless genius that is reminiscent of Lennon/McCartney. Wood's Move songs sound like he's trying a little harder. Too often they will have a brilliant verse or a chorus, rather than being perfect all the way through. There are of course some noted exceptions, such as "Beautiful Daughter", which I would consider to be a perfect pop song. Still, Roy wrote some AMAZING tunes! The verse to "Curly" just kills me. I guess comparing Lyyne and Wood is kind of stupid, really. They are both incredibly sharp. I will say this though,..... the fact that the album you've claimed to be representative of the Move's best work happens to be comprised of half cover tunes doesn't do much to support your contentions regarding Roy Wood's prolific songwriting expertise.

 

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Damn good point. There is no way anyone could argue that the early Move material isn't some of the finest pop music out there!

No way, dude. I'm telling you....check out the Idle Race!!

 

Thanks for this response. So would you say that overall the Millenium edition is an overall improvement on the original US cd across the board? The reason I ask is because it is easier to find than the Japanese cd.

 

I always considered Roy Wood to be similar to Todd Rundgren, because he always seemed to write and play songs in whatever style he wanted to, when he wanted to. Like Todd, Roy could write great pop songs at will. I've always thought that "Tonight" and "Chinatown" were pop classics; and my favorite solo pop song that Roy did was "Any Old Time Will Do"; that song has an incredible memorable melody. Also, I do think that Jeff Lynne is an excellent pop writer as well, and I greatly admire his work, but Roy just seemed to take chances in his writing whenever he wanted to, not when someone wanted him to. With Roy Wood, I always expect the unexpected!!





Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

 

Maybe they were. Problem is, they were in different groups in the "early days"!

 

I also love those tracks you mentioned Ed.

Wake Up from Boulders is another favourite of mine.

 

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Somehow I did forget "Down on the Bay". A very excellent song indeed, with a groovy garagey solo that I presume is Roy.

I guess we have to agree to disagree on the Message album though. "Heavy" and "wanky" to me better describe "The Minister or "Words of Aaron" than Roy's stuff on that record. "Till Your Mama's Gone" is a damn catchy song.

It's a fair cop. I have never heard anything by the Idle Race.

I haven't heard a lot of 70's Roy stuff, but you're right, none of it impresses me as much as his stuff with the Move.

Prolificness (prolificity?) has nothing to do with it. I wasn't saying anything about who was more prolific, simply that I like Roy Wood's Move songs a lot better than Jeff Lynne's. And I guess the fact that I think Shazam is their best album means I like cover songs arranged by Roy better than Jeff Lynne's songs too (at least those particular cover songs on that particular album).

Which again, is not to say I dislike Jeff Lynne's work at all. The Move was a great band and all their albums are varying degrees of great.

 

There a German/ Holland compilation "Best of the Best" that sounds pretty good IMO. The Mastersound of 'Face the Music' sound better the the regular release, but it could have been better. The Millennium editions of 'Out of the Blue' is really nice. I checked it against the tracks from the 'Flashback' box set. The ME is a little bright (maybe "glossy" is a better description) in spots but way better then the recent remasters. But if your really into ELO you got to get 'Eldorado' on DCC. That's where the whole idea of Electric Light Orchestra comes to form (pop and a orchestra? Ah Ha!)

I think Jeff Lynn is also a great producer, but he is not for everyone! Tom Petty did well with him and it worked well for Roy Orbison too, but with the Beatles singles, the 5th Beatle... was more apparent then the other 4!. But I loved Armchair Theater and I think Jeff should produce Dylan's next album.

Just listen to Dylan's cuts on the Traveling Wilburry discs and then Dylan's 'Things have Change' track, it's not that far a jump.

 

The ME version is better than the standard domestic copies, but it's not night and day.

It is also a bit glossy like Elton said, but O.K. tho.

The reason I prefer the Japanese issue above all the others, is because it doesn't sound like it was messed with. Probably just straight from the master, nothing more, nothing less. Sounds more analogue like my old vinyl copy, which is the way I remember it.

 

Brian, Fill me in on this 25th aniv. 2CD set. "Light Years" with the
single version of "Ma Ma Ma Belle"

What country is this from? And you say it's the same track
selection as "The Ultimate Collection".

I missed these......can you give me/us some further details
on these collections.....

Thanks,

JF

 

Of course. So what?