Elton John SACD's...the first listen

Not all the EJ surrounds are equally bright. Note my post was referring to Captain Fantastic's shrieking top end, not Honky Chateau, the one you listened to. Tumbleweed is another title that isn't as bright as CF. Have you listened to CF in surround? I'd be interested for you to check out that title and post what you think of the sound on that one. I tried to play the surround once and filed it in the never to be played again area of my cd collection.

 

You say bonus tracks? Isn't there just one bonus track, the electric version of "Madman Across The Water" already included on the Rocket remasters from 95/96 ?

 

also includes Into the Old Man's Shoes.

Stevie

 

Anyone else out there impatiently waiting for their EJ SACD's? I was positive that I'd get the rest soon after Capt. Fantastic, but then it's been all silent on this front.

 

You mean to say that Honky Chateau and Tumbleweed Connection are on the 'softer' side where brightness is concerned? If so, I am glad to hear that the two titles I've chosen to buy first are the most 'tender' to our ears. And I say this because, after listening to Honky Chateau a few times I have been able to notice that brightness, which seems to center on the high-end sounds because it is my impression that the mid frequencies are quite good sounding. If I were to define the presence of the offending brightness by instruments I would say it basically centers around the drums (cymbals and snare) and in the sibilation (in some parts) of the voice.

As to CF, unfortunately it is not currently on my list. I think I'd go for Madman Across the Water first. BTW, I am quite curious of how the bonus version of the song sounds in Tumbleweed Connection. By the comments I've been reading here it sounds as if is going to be an interesting track.

 

Some instrument highlights I like from the "Honky Chateau" surround mix:

Love the sound of the ARP (sweeps and the harmonized melodies it plays against the piano chords - with their front to back effect) as well as the chorus in the surrounds in "Rocket Man".

The sound of the two electric guitars on the surrounds in "Salvation" is great.

Like the conga on the surrounds in "Slave" (original version). Don't like the bonus version, though.

Like the sound of the banjo and the brass (although slightly less) in the surrounds in "Honky Cat".

Love the sound of Jean Luc Ponty's electric violin in "Mellow". It sounds almost like a strange organ, the only way to tell it apart from the organ (apart from it being in the front right as opposed to the organ in the right surround) are the glissandi Ponty plays.

Also enjoy the sound of the tap dancing in "I Think I'm Gonna Kill Myself".

 

Everyone settle down and grab a seat!

OK lets see.
I spent half my day seeing what other people wrote about these discs. I didnt know some people are so agitated so easily over something if it isnt perfect.

For references, i own 40 DCC gold discs, 210 MFSL gold discs. and about 200 SACDs.
My system is a universal Denon DVD2200, Mirage HDT system, Velodyne HGS 15, and McIntosh C45 preamp.

I got all the Elton SACDs about two weeks ago and have finally listened to all of them. Compared them to MOFIs and Polydors etc.

1) I am not throwing away my MOFIs. Do they sound better? not substantially if at all. Are they keepsakes? Yes.

2) I am ditching all other versions.

My first listen was EJ self titled. Hadnt listened to it in years but it immediately brought me back to how great it once sounded with my original MCA's where i actually was a nerd and sat down and wrote the lyrics so i would have them.

Very intimate album. and all the intimacy is there. Spaciousness is added. the SACD stereo layer is bright to my ears. Not unlistenable. if you have SACD, you need multichannel. Its a worthwhile upgrade. I dont care how analog you are. the brightness fades and its very engaging.

I noticed different overall times for the different layers. couldnt figure it out. The bonus tracks seem slightly louder than the rest of the album. But the bonus tracks sound so great in comparison to Rare Masters that i felt like they are really part of the album now.

Honky was next. always loved this album. nothing glared at me other than the fact that it sounded great in multichannel. again the overall disc times were different. sacd stereo was louder and multichannel was heaven.

Madman came next. sounded great. dont know what people are fussing about. its bright, but not at all unlistenable. in fact i couldnt walk away. 2 minutes more on Razor Face perked me up and gave me huge smiles wondering how long it was going to keep on going compared to all other issues.

Captain Fantastic takes the cake. i couldnt help but stand up and sing and play air guitar to the rockers on this album. By the end i was singing the lyrics as loud as i could and you think i even cared about if it sounded better than older versions? I would say i felt overwelmed. And close to the music again. (this is the only album i cant play piano to cause i dont know the songs on piano to any songs on the album) it made me want to learn them immediately and start building up my elton performance repertoir again.

Tumbleweed always sounded the best to me on MFSL compared to the others. The SACD multi stands with the rest. Again the SACD stereo is louder, and brighter. But nothing like some other cds i have heard...including all the 95 masters which i found harsh.

Peachtree Rd sounds great. as it should being a new recording. its more subtle than the older recordings but after about 20 listens, the songs feel classic already. and i find some legitimacy to the word being that his new album is a return to form.


So what are you waiting for?
Folks who dont have multichannel. stick with older releases.
If you got multichannel, get these and put them on your shelf proudly. say goodbye to stereo at home and pile those MP3's on your car only discs.



My only reservations are the packaging. The GBYR packaging was first rate, but i too found the mastering overly bright. Its still the definitive version to me based on packaging and multichannel. But I was really hoping for somethign special in the packaging on the new discs. And there wasnt anything at all to get excited about. Shold have gone with digipaks.(Another reason to keep MFSL for their excellent packaging)


so whew, i have never written this forum but have always read it. hopefully people who are really wanting the impression made to a huge Elton John fan and owner of above avg equipment will now feel safe in purchasing these. Keep your hopes down and you will be very pleasantly surprised. If you know any words to any of these songs, you WILL be singing them to the multichannel mixes.

enjoy and pass the word so we can get the next batch of EJ, Dylan, and whoever else soon!!!!

 

Wow. What a great first post here at SH! Welcome, and we are glad you finally decided to post.

Thank you for your well thought out and expressed opinions on these SACDs. They have taken a beating here by some, but I think you sum up the major experience quite well.

Sometimes we tend to be SO critical that it blinds us to the enjoyment of a recording. When dealing with 20+ year old material, it's hard to achieve perfection. Sometimes it cannot be achieved at all.

Still, if the end result is enjoyable, even if it might have been done a little differently, there is still no reason to avoid it. I think everyone should try music on their own system with their own ears, then see what THEY think!

That works for me!

Again, welcome to the posting side of the forum!

 

Yes, thanks for your comments. Very astute. You feel the same way I do....these are fun classic recordings that have new life in Multichannel.

Its not rocket science....its just plain fun!

Great first post!

 

Welcome Lovealego!!!

Many new members get into something tame at first- just to get their feet wet. You jumped right in to a hot topic- congratulations!

As for your review- very keen observations- and I would avery much agree with how you ended it- if what you want is the Stereo piece- stick with what you already have, whether it be past releases, or MFSL.

However- if you wanted the Multi- versions of these, grab em. The multi mix offer a very different perspective or this important music. They aren't perfect- and as Jon alluded to- dealing with music of this vintage- its never gonna be perfect. I thought they were mastered on the bright side, but it doesn't stop me from listening to them.


Chris

 

I have not listened to Honky Chateau in surround. I wouldn't say either of the two discs in this series that I have listened to (Tumbleweed and CF) are "softer" or warm. Tumbleweed's surround sounded less shrieky to me than CF, but still too bright. Sigh.

 

I'm halfway through the first listen of "Tumbleweed Connection" in surround and have the impression that this mix is seriously flawed (or, to be more correct, seriously different from the original stereo one.)

I am used to listening to the MoFi gold disc of this record and many details I am used to listening to on the stereo mixes, especially, where the guitars are concerned, are buried so deeply in these mixes you really have to make an effort to hear them. I believe that part of the problem may lie in how the acoustic guitars have been EQed (for example the acoustic guitar in 'My Father's Gun'). The other is just plain volume. Does anyone here know if any of those instruments was sharing a track with another and that is the cause for this?

An example: once the into's harp finishes in 'Come Down In Time' you should be able to clearly hear some acoustic guitar harmonics. They are there (in the front left I believe) but you can't hardly hear them. The rest of the acoustic guitar in the song can hardly be heard. The same happens with the oboe. Both are much more present in the stereo mix. Of course the strings sound great when they do enter, but, where are the accompanying acoustic guitar oboe? buried in the mix.

I also felt like there's something missing in the electric guitar in 'Where To Now St. Peter', although I still have to take a closer look at that.

The case is so mystifying that I got up several time to check if my amp was set up incorrectly, but this is the same setting that has delivered a beautiful surround mix in the case of "Honky Chateau."

On another note, this album was recorded in an 8-channel or so multitrack and it shows (nothing bad here). That might partly the reason why it has been said here that it is less bright. I do not find it less bright (just notice the top end), just that the mid frequencies sound more muffled than on, say, "Honky Chateau."

I can't assure it yet as this is just my first listen, but it seems that Peter Townshend did a better job at mixing the low-channel multi from "Tommy" than Greg Penny did here. I have to listen to this a few more times and that might change some of my first impression of this record, but the differences I am noticing are so big that I wanted to share this right away.

 

I have only purchased Madman on SACD. I'm quite satisfied with the surround mix but the drums sound compressed. Sure wish the original mastering was used for this disc.
I'll always pull out the original MCA (or MFSL) cds for these EJ titles.
I also agree with the above post, Pete Townsend did a great job mixing Tommy for the SACD release of that title.

Joe L.

 

I would like to update what I said in my previous post.

First, I had more time to listen to "Tumbleweed Connection" and "Honky Chateau" over the weekend. Suddenly I started noticing something strange on the mix on this last record only to find out that there was something that had been affecting my auditions of this material. For some unknown reason (probably a power outage while I was away from home) totally erased the settings on my player. This is the main reason why the "Tumbleweed Connection" mix, and now the "Honky Chateau" one where sounding strange to me.

Once I reprogrammed the settings things were pretty much back to normal and correct listening standards. Thus, I've discovered that the 5.1 mix on "Tumbleweed Connection" is pretty good (I guess I now like it a little bit more than the HC one). Yet, I stand by my original opinion that the guitars (especially the one in 'Come Down In Time" is a little bit low in volume. As to the wah-wah guitar in "Where To Now St. Peter?" Penny clearly made a mistake there. He seems to have left all that was recorded on the track and on the original stereo mix they originally muted the first few guitar notes, which makes for a better entrance later. I believe he has also left another guitar part later on that, IMHO, mars the song's feeling with it's rambling notes.

People who have said that "Love Song" is quite nice are right on the money. It is also a thrill to hear the ebb and flow of the string in "Come Down In Time". The harmonica in "Son Of Your Father" sounds kick-*** and having included "Into The Old Man's Shoes" (which I had not heard before) and the original version of "Madman Across the Water" fits the album quite well. In the case of the later, it is quite an interesting mix as some of you pointed out. The guitar playing come through as strong and raw, with no subtleties in the expression department. This is a great album I have always loved and I am learning to love it in this new mix where so many things can be heard with a clearer sense of their original sound.

Honky Chateau is also nice.

BTW, I continue to feel they are both bright, with HC being the brightest of the two. If in doubt, play Beck's "Sea Change" right after listening to this material. And, again, the culprit is the top end because the mid range sounds quite nice.

Excuse me if there is any mistake on this post. I am quite busy lately and wanted to shre this sooner than later, so I've rushed through this.

 

btw....the EJ Sacd's are reviewed in this months Stereo Review (Jan 2005 issue) and they concur that the surround mixes are pretty darn good.

 

Interesting, My Elton SACDs, though ordered from a Swedish company, are also the American pressings. Anyone here on the forum got any European/EU pressings of these Elton SACDs?

 

SR is the kind of mag to review a mix and completely ignore heinously bright mastering. I'd feel better if The Abso!ute Sound or Stereophile raved about them, but even Stereophile has praised a couple discs I thought were atrociously mastered.

None of the above mags made note that on the Daniel Barenboim (conductor) DVD-A's of Beethoven symphonies that the vocals are WAY too loud, but they reviewed them