We all would like a simple formula but there are enough exceptions to every rule with CD's that it is not prudent to assume anything. Just an opinion, of course.
So I'm overwhelmed by the degree of detailed info in this thread, and wonder if someone can help me with a couple simple questions... are there secret remasters of Punch the Clock and Goodbye Cruel World which clone the Fiend CDs, and if so which numbers do I need to look for to find them?
They all have to be compared one by one... I've compared the Columbia CDs of PTC and GBCW from the list above (DIDP-020033 5 and DIDP 020202) against their IMP counterparts. As in post #45 these also seem to be made from the same digital masters. The volume levels and speed were also slightly tweaked. I checked he first tracks of both Columbias and they end about 0.25 sec. earlier than the IMP discs. PTC seems to have been digitally edited slightly more than the others, the waveforms differ a bit more when zoomed in but I think the digital source must be the same. PTC probably has an earlier mastering. The version pressed in Japan likely differs. And whether the first US pressings without a leading zero in the matrix of PTC and GBCW differ I don't know, nobody has submitted them yet...
foobar2000 1.3.15 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2019-05-02 12:51:45 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Elvis Costello / King Of America CK 40173 DIDP 70030 11A2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR13 -1.28 dB -16.67 dB 3:44 01-Brilliant Mistake DR13 -1.35 dB -16.30 dB 2:52 02-Lovable DR13 -3.16 dB -17.81 dB 4:06 03-Our Little Angel DR14 -1.87 dB -18.09 dB 3:22 04-Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood DR13 -1.34 dB -15.72 dB 3:18 05-Glitter Gulch DR11 -3.62 dB -18.57 dB 4:10 06-Indoor Fireworks DR11 -4.44 dB -18.46 dB 3:49 07-Little Palaces DR14 -1.79 dB -19.65 dB 4:22 08-I'll Wear It Proudly DR12 -2.14 dB -15.82 dB 4:34 09-American Without Tears DR13 -1.67 dB -16.82 dB 3:46 10-Eisenhower Blues DR12 -2.19 dB -17.75 dB 4:07 11-Poisoned Rose DR12 -1.92 dB -15.82 dB 2:33 12-The Big Light DR13 -1.00 dB -17.85 dB 5:18 13-Jack Of All Parades DR13 -0.40 dB -16.63 dB 4:07 14-Suit Of Lights DR15 -1.87 dB -20.20 dB 3:49 15-Sleep Of The Just -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 15 Official DR value: DR13 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 1411 kbps Codec: PCM ================================================================================
Looks the same as the leading zero version from the list, so KOA probably has only one Columbia mastering. I've taken another peek at the waveforms of PTC, which I described as 'differing a bit more' than the others. I'm not so sure anymore if the digital source is indeed the same. I've tried comparing the masterings by ear but my decent Sennheiser HD600 headphones plugged into my Gigabyte Motherboards front panel produce a horrible sound, not good enough for comparing. I should buy an external headphone amplifier + DAC. Anybody know if the Dragonfly Red is any good with my 300 Ohm HD600?
Here's a 0.013 sec. snippet from the opening tracks of two Punch The Clock masterings. Both have been amplified with the loudest peak at max. Columbia DIDP-020033 5 is on top. Bottom is IMP Fiend CD72. Question for the waveform/mastering experts: Could this likeness have been achieved by doing a new digital transfer from the analog master?
For those who champion the Rhinos/Hip-Os: This Year's Model, The 1986 IMP Fiend is on top. Bottom is the 2002 Rhino. Nice bricks...
foobar2000 1.3.15 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2019-05-14 15:51:25 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Elvis Costello And The Attractions / Imperial Bedroom CK 38157 DIDP 20339 11A1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -1.93 dB -17.27 dB 2:35 01-Beyond Belief DR13 -2.00 dB -19.07 dB 3:03 02-Tears Before Bedtime DR15 -2.72 dB -20.76 dB 4:49 03-Shabby Doll DR14 -4.57 dB -22.25 dB 4:17 04-The Long Honeymoon DR12 -2.86 dB -17.10 dB 5:28 05-Man Out Of Time DR13 -7.13 dB -23.93 dB 2:51 06-Almost Blue DR14 -3.72 dB -20.60 dB 3:25 07-...And In Every Home DR13 -2.13 dB -17.07 dB 2:49 08-The Loved Ones DR13 -1.55 dB -17.72 dB 2:44 09-Human Hands DR14 -3.32 dB -20.75 dB 2:46 10-Kid About It DR13 -2.77 dB -18.83 dB 2:38 11-Little Savage DR12 -4.62 dB -20.61 dB 2:14 12-Boy With A Problem DR14 -2.78 dB -20.74 dB 3:59 13-Pidgin English DR13 -0.48 dB -18.59 dB 3:12 14-You Little Fool DR13 -3.80 dB -19.31 dB 4:15 15-Town Cryer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 15 Official DR value: DR13 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 1411 kbps Codec: PCM
foobar2000 1.3.15 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2019-05-14 16:16:34 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Elvis Costello / This Year's Model CK 35331 DIDP 020325 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR10 -2.01 dB -14.47 dB 2:00 01-No Action DR11 -1.95 dB -14.66 dB 3:24 02-This Year's Girl DR11 -3.95 dB -18.33 dB 3:47 03-The Beat DR12 -1.45 dB -14.60 dB 3:16 04-Pump It Up DR13 -1.92 dB -17.75 dB 2:42 05-Little Triggers DR14 -0.24 dB -17.01 dB 2:24 06-You Belong To Me DR12 -2.14 dB -17.41 dB 2:37 07-Hand In Hand DR12 -2.17 dB -16.42 dB 2:38 08-Lip Service DR12 -2.27 dB -17.90 dB 3:46 09-Living In Paradise DR11 -2.37 dB -16.76 dB 3:33 10-Lipstick Vogue DR12 -2.35 dB -17.71 dB 3:05 11-Radio, Radio -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 11 Official DR value: DR12 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 1411 kbps Codec: PCM ================================================================================
As expected, this one is (almost) the same as the Pitman. A little RMS difference in track 1. As with the creation of a new glass master between Armed Forces DIDP 020187 4 and DIDP 020187 5 someone in the production chain deemed it necessary to change something. Strangely, it seems IB has only one Columbia mastering.
My apologies if this is a bit off topic, but I posed this question almost a decade ago without getting a definitive answer (I realize it’s hard to get a definitive answer when the most likely explanation requires proving a negative) and it seems at least somewhat relevant to this close examination of early CD pressings so I’ll repost here. I remain highly skeptical this version of the Columbia Get Happy CD actually exists, but that ICE reader was so specific in his description I’ve long felt I had to leave open the possibility that just maybe there are a few early copies floating around out there with the variant track sequence. Can anyone here clear this up? Elvis Costello's GET HAPPY!!: alternate sequence on CD? The confusion regarding the proper sequencing of the original LP release of GET HAPPY!! is well documented, and almost certainly the result of some intentional mischief on EC's part. However, I've long been under the impression that the sequencing on the CD has always been consistent. However, a CD Watchdog item in an old issue (march 1991, itself the victim of a typographical error on the front page that suggests it's the January issue!) of ICE suggests otherwise. According to Todd Tomasic: "Columbia saw fit to master GET HAPPY!! backwards. On the vinyl, side one starts with 'Love For Tender' and side two with 'I Can't Stand Up For Falling Down,' although on the album sleeve they are reversed. Guess what? They mastered it [The CD] according to the sleeve, so it's backwards; press 'start' and you get 'Can't Stand Up..." not 'Love For Tender.'..." Can anyone confirm this is the case? I know I've tested several copies of the Columbia CD, and they've always begun with "Love For Tender." Complicating the issue a bit, I know for a fact that at least some of the longboxes for GET HAPPY!! featured the alternate sequence, perhaps explaining the confusion, but Todd certainly sounds like he took his CD out of the longbox and gave it an actual listen!
I don't know the answer to your question, but it would seem to me that if the flipped mastering does indeed exist someone would have come forward. Then again, there's not much interest in this Costello thread, so maybe not... By the way, the first Columbia Get Happy!! pressing without a leading zero in the matrix hasn't been submitted yet...
I'm sorry I didn't keep my original CD (one of few early purchases I gave up at some point) because I vividly remember waiting for Get Happy!! to come out on CD and jumping on it when it did. (At the time I didn't have a good source for imports, so I'm talking about the US Columbia.)
Interesting! I would guess that on the (very unlikely) chance this thing exists, it’d be from this earliest pressing. But yeah, as you say, it seems someone would have come forward by now. EC fans have generally done a commendable job documenting his work. Then again, an alternate mix of “Little Palaces” on the Demon/Rykodisc edition of King of America seemingly went unnoticed for many years until it was restored on the Rhino edition, so you never know. The ultimate example of an important variant that slipped thru the cracks must have been those Canadian copies of The Beatles Help & Rubber Soul CDs where fans went decades without realizing certain pressings featured the long sought after original stereo mixes, as opposed to the 80’s remixes that were assumed to be on all worldwide copies. If (the far more numerous) Beatles obsessives out there can collectively drop that ball, EC fans overlooking an alternate sequence for Get Happy seems a little more forgivable (particularly since many of the people purchasing it may have believed that it was the correct sequence, given the intentional ambiguity of the original LP).
An interesting observation: most Columbia Costellos have a DIDP matrix starting with 2 (or 02 for post 1988 represses), indicating a 1984/85 first pressing round. In 1986 they started with DIDP 70xxx. 'King of America' has DIDP 70030, 'Blood and Chocolate' has 70236 and 'Get Happy' has 70083, so if Columbia/CBS adhered to their own sequence the known first press should have been released somewhere in between those two in 1986. My guess is that if your flipped earlier mastering does indeed exist, it will likely have a DIDP 20xxx matrix...
You could be onto something here. Of the pre 1986 Columbia albums in the list only two have a DIDP 70xxx matrix: Trust (DIDP 70208) and Get Happy!! (DIDP 70083), indicating that these are the only releases with a 1986 first pressing while the other cds were first released in 1984/85. This seems rather strange, so maybe these two DO have an earlier DIDP 20xxx pressing...
I also have the Rykodisc...remastered by Roger Bechirian from original masters and 20 bit technology. I remember the 20 bit sticker on it. (I think). They also sent me an EC t-shirt.
foobar2000 1.3.15 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2019-06-10 15:03:58 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Elvis Costello & The Attractions / Trust IMP FIEND CD 30 - Demon Records -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR13 -0.02 dB -15.55 dB 3:45 01-Clubland DR15 0.00 dB -16.12 dB 2:19 02-Lovers Walk DR14 0.00 dB -16.18 dB 2:59 03-You'll Never Be A Man DR14 -0.01 dB -15.79 dB 3:13 04-Pretty Words DR14 -0.54 dB -15.69 dB 2:41 05-Strict Time DR11 -2.88 dB -15.13 dB 2:29 06-Luxembourg DR13 0.00 dB -15.04 dB 3:00 07-Watch Your Step DR14 0.00 dB -17.42 dB 3:48 08-New Lace Sleeves DR12 0.00 dB -14.04 dB 2:57 09-From A Whisper To A Scream DR15 -1.72 dB -18.38 dB 2:00 10-Different Finger DR14 0.00 dB -15.53 dB 3:50 11-White Knuckles DR14 -0.34 dB -17.64 dB 3:35 12-Shot With His Own Gun DR14 0.00 dB -14.86 dB 2:59 13-Fish 'N' Chip Paper DR11 -4.71 dB -18.43 dB 2:13 14-Big Sister's Clothes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 14 Official DR value: DR13 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 667 kbps Codec: FLAC ======================================================
Interesting. Those IMP DR values seem quite a bit higher than those of the two Columbia masterings. Most of the tracks from the second Columbia are hard peak limited to -2.60 and -2.20 dB. RMS values are quite close though...
Resume of what has been submitted at this point. I've translated the Dynamic Range Meter peaks to EAC percentage peaks for a tidier look. Please fill in the gaps. My Aim Is True Columbia Mastering #1 : 83.1/ 83.8/ 83.9/ 80.7/ 92.0/ 86.6/ 75.6/ 100.0/ 92.0/ 87.7/ 96.4/ 100.0/ 100.0 Matrix DIDP 20091 11 Japan for US Dynamic Range 11 36:38 Mastering #2 : Still missing Matrix DIDP-20091 21 Japan for US Mastering #3A: 75.7/ 81.8/ 77.4/ 75.0/ 77.0/ 71.8/ 65.0/ 77.1 / 70.4/ 71.2/ 76.7/ 84.8 / 68.8 Matrix DIDP 20091 41A1 Dynamic Range 11 35:57 Mastering #3B: 74.1/ 79.9/ 75.7/ 73.3/ 75.3/ 70.2/ 63.6/ 75.4 / 68.8/ 69.7/ 75.0/ 82.9 / 67.2 Matrix #900228E Cinram Canada Dynamic Range 11 35:57 Mastering #4 : 96.8/ 79.7/ 81.8/ 81.6/ 91.5/ 76.5/ 59.5/ 100.0/ 86.9/ 99.3/ 93.3/ 92.5 / 100.0 Matrix DIDP-020091 9, Matrix 2A CK35037 11 B Dynamic Range 14 36:34 #3B looks like a 0.97 levelshift from #3A. #4 is derived from the UK IMP Fiend CD13. This Year's Model Columbia Mastering #1 : 74.0/ 82.2/ 70.2/ 89.1/ 84.8/ 87.9/ 84.2/ 72.4/ 81.7/ 69.9/ 82.5 Matrix DIDP 20325 11A6 Dynamic Range 13 33:22 Mastering #2 : 79.3/ 79.9/ 63.4/ 84.6/ 80.2/ 97.3/ 78.1/ 77.8/ 77.0/ 76.0/ 76.3 Matrix 3A CK35331 01 B Dynamic Range 12 33:14 #2 is derived from the UK IMP Fiend CD18. Armed Forces Columbia Mastering #1 : 86.4/ 86.7/ 87.1/ 99.8/ 95.6/ 87.3/ 100.0/ 94.3/ 79.8/ 86.7/ 91.6/ 83.2 Matrix DIDP 20187 21A15 Dynamic Range 14 36:48 Mastering #2A: 88.3/ 89.9/ 85.6/ 88.3/ 80.5/ 89.0/ 88.5 / 70.9/ 69.0/ 81.6/ 70.1/ 50.3 Matrix DIDP-020187 4 Dynamic Range 13 36:41 Mastering #2B: 88.7/ 89.9/ 86.4/ 87.8/ 81.0/ 89.4/ 89.1 / 70.8/ 69.2/ 82.1/ 69.9/ 50.5 Matrix DIDP-020187 5 Dynamic Range 13 36:41 #2A and #2B are both derived from the UK IMP Fiend CD21. They stay in sync but can't be nulled out. Get Happy!! Columbia Mastering #1 : Still missing Mastering #2 : 69.7/ 91.9/ 84.6/ 86.8/ 88.4/ 86.0/ 76.4/ 85.9/ 69.4/ 85.3/ 81.9/ 69.9/ 74.0/ 90.1/ 81.8/ 85.2/ 51.5/ 76.7/ 68.3/ 85.7 Matrix DIDP-070083 3 DR12 48:25 #2 is derived from the UK IMP Fiend CD24 Trust Columbia Mastering #1 : 74.6/ 79.7/ 80.8/ 74.0/ 79.3/ 75.7/ 70.7/ 63.1/ 69.2/ 69.4/ 70.4/ 67.8/ 77.5/ 57.7 Matrix DIDP 70208 DR11 41:43 Mastering #2 : 74.1/ 74.1/ 74.1/ 74.1/ 74.1/ 74.0/ 74.1/ 77.6/ 77.6/ 77.6. 77.6/ 77.6/ 77.6/ 59.7 Matrix DIDP-070208 2 DR12 41:48 Imperial Bedroom Columbia Mastering #1 : 80.0/ 79.4/ 73.1/ 59.0/ 71.9/ 44.0/ 65.1/ 78.2/ 83.6/ 68.2/ 72.6/ 58.7/ 72.5/ 94.6/ 64.5 Matrix DIDP 20339 11A1, Matrix DIDP-020339 3 DR13 51:02 Punch the Clock Columbia Mastering #1 : Still missing Japan for US Mastering #2 : 98.6/ 93.3/ 100.0/ 79.8/ 95.5/ 78.8/ 90.2/ 91.6/ 93.6/ 91.0/ 82.6/ 48.9/ 100.0 Matrix DIDP-020033 5 DR13 45:26 Goodbye Cruel World Columbia Mastering #1 : 79.6/ 95.7/ 85.1/ 68.3/ 80.5/ 94.5/ 78.5/ 78.8/ 77.1/ 100.0/ 89.5/ 76.4/ 64.3 Matrix DIDP 020202 DR14 44:17 King of America Columbia Mastering #1 : 86.2/ 85.5/ 69.5/ 80.6/ 85.6/ 65.9/ 59.9/ 81.3/ 78.1/ 82.5/ 77.7/ 80.1/ 89.1/ 95.4/ 80.6 Matrix DIDP 70030 11A2, Matrix DIDP-070030 3 DR13 57:58 Blood & Chocolate Columbia Mastering #1 : 70.9/ 73.0/ 93.6/ 64.8/ 67.7/ 76.9/ 82.0/ 93.4/ 90.2/ 100.0/ 86.6 Matrix DIDP 70236 21A2, Matrix DIDP-070236 DR12 47:48
picked up a columbia This Years model today; look forward to giving it a good listen to compare; any thoughts anyone?
Is it mastering #1 or #2? Mastering #2 is related to IMP Fiend CD18. The 1993 Ryko/Demon contains some strange remixes and the 2002 Rhino/Edsel is loud and brickwalled, see post #57. Looking forward to your sound review.
foobar2000 1.3.15 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2019-08-27 13:59:14 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Elvis Costello / Taking Liberties CK 36839 DIDP 070164 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -5.00 dB -19.06 dB 2:01 01-Clean Money DR13 -3.59 dB -19.67 dB 1:58 02-Girls Talk DR13 -3.13 dB -18.80 dB 1:57 03-Talking In The Dark DR14 -5.04 dB -20.88 dB 2:29 04-Radio Sweetheart DR14 -5.42 dB -23.80 dB 1:51 05-Black And White World DR12 -5.06 dB -18.92 dB 3:11 06-Big Tears DR15 -5.35 dB -24.20 dB 2:18 07-Just A Memory DR12 -5.00 dB -19.75 dB 2:43 08-Night Rally DR12 -5.88 dB -20.67 dB 3:03 09-Stranger In The House DR15 -3.16 dB -22.25 dB 3:49 10-Clowntime Is Over DR13 -4.37 dB -19.05 dB 2:10 11-Getting Mighty Crowded DR12 -5.07 dB -19.97 dB 1:46 12-Hoover Factory DR12 -5.15 dB -19.09 dB 2:42 13-Tiny Steps DR12 -4.88 dB -18.38 dB 3:07 14-(I Don't Want To Go To) Chelsea DR12 -4.32 dB -19.05 dB 3:29 15-Dr. Luther's Assistant DR12 -3.33 dB -18.42 dB 3:24 16-Sunday's Best DR13 -2.12 dB -18.52 dB 2:54 17-Crawling To The U.S.A. DR12 -4.62 dB -19.44 dB 2:05 18-Wednesday Week DR12 -6.68 dB -22.81 dB 1:31 19-My Funny Valentine DR12 -4.93 dB -21.51 dB 3:06 20-Ghost Train -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 20 Official DR value: DR13 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 1411 kbps Codec: PCM ================================================================================
For some reason the Columbia Almost blue (matrix DIDP-071681) was only released in 1989. So a version without leading zero probably doesn't exist. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Elvis Costello / Almost Blue (IMP FIEND CD 33, 1986) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR13 0.00 dB -15.91 dB 1:38 01-Why Don't You Love Me (Like You Used to Do)? DR13 0.00 dB -18.70 dB 3:00 02-Sweet Dreams DR14 -0.78 dB -18.15 dB 2:42 03-Success DR15 0.00 dB -18.74 dB 3:24 04-I'm Your Toy DR13 -0.39 dB -16.35 dB 2:10 05-Tonight the Bottle Let Me Down DR14 0.00 dB -16.90 dB 2:39 06-Brown to Blue DR14 0.00 dB -18.06 dB 3:09 07-Good Year for the Roses DR14 0.00 dB -16.94 dB 3:01 08-Sittin' and Thinkin' DR14 -0.07 dB -17.72 dB 2:21 09-Colour of the Blues DR13 -3.88 dB -21.59 dB 3:28 10-Too Far Gone DR15 0.00 dB -17.39 dB 2:15 11-Honey Hush DR15 -2.01 dB -19.35 dB 2:44 12-How Much I've Lied -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 12 Official DR value: DR14 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 749 kbps Codec: FLAC