Elvis Presley - The Albums and Singles Thread pt2 The Sixties

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Oct 7, 2018.

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  1. Iceman08

    Iceman08 Forum Resident

    This is exactly my opinion, too.
    Around 1972 onward to me he often sounded either whiny and throaty or operatic. And then all those endless MOR country pop tearjerker songs- he could have exchanged all those songs directly with Conway Twitty or Charlie Rich- which I totally love in their earlier 50s-60s career (SUN, Hi, Decca, Smash recordings).
    Around 1976 he was more grumbling and groaning the songs or singing them in some kind of operatic style. Definately his weakest music period to me.
    I also bought his "Stax" recordings again with the nice boxset some years ago because so many people were praising these recordings suddenly and I thought maybe I had missed something, but beside the very nice package these are Elvis' songs I listen to the least. Beside the legendary name "Stax" the songs to me don't have the funk/ soul groove it needs to have "Stax" stamped on it. But what can you anticipate when he exchanged all the legendary Stax staff musicians for his usual crowd and come up with the usual tearjerker ballads- only in a different environment?
    I missed the whole sharpness, the grit and the easiness (early 60s recordings) of his performances which he had at his peak to me in the 50s and around 1968-70.
     
  2. Iceman08

    Iceman08 Forum Resident

    Very good articulated. And beside that he unfortunately often "dodged away" important confrontations (for example in front of Parker he only mumbled "Yes, Sir." when told to record a christmas song for the TV special and only changed the plan with Binder after he was out of the room/ getting back to Parker managing him after some days of threatening/ complaining about all the same kind of movies but signing contracts for something like 10 movies with a company/ touring overseas against Parker's refusal/ endless Vegas concerts when he was so ill he one time was unconscious and Parker told the Memphis Mafia guys to put his head in a bucket with ice water to get him out on stage etc. etc. ) and instead only dumped aggressions in front of his employees or girlfriends or Vernon.
    If only he more often had reacted with backbone. Sometimes I think this could be an important cause why lots of young people tend more towards Johnny Cash than Elvis. Of course Cash had lots and lots of other inner enemies and he also had some career mistakes but he was able to draw a line and say "Stop it here. I'm going to try something else from now on" stands today for a moody rebel who only did what he himself wanted to do. That's not so much the case with Elvis.
     
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  3. Iceman08

    Iceman08 Forum Resident

    This is the first time someone writes it down so perfectly as I exactly see it, too. Very good observed. Thanks a million, PacificOceanBlue.
     
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  4. PepiJean

    PepiJean Forum Resident

    YOU'LL THINK OF ME

    "In the last song, YOU'LL THINK OF ME, there is a strangely disconnected opening which gradually builds to the basic tempo. The song, which lasts almost four minutes, is long for the material, but Presley manages to hold it together through the layers of sound."
    (Robert Matthew-Walker, "Heartbreak Hotel: the Life and Music of Elvis Presley")

    "I don't know how Elvis got hold of YOU'LL THINK OF ME. I wrote it as a Dylany song and I almost spoke it when I sang it. It's very much in the San Francisco era. Elvis put it on the backside of SUSPICIOUS MINDS, which was a great song - I love that chorus."
    (Mort Shuman)
     
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  5. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I love You'll Think Of Me. The single mix is slightly different than the LP mix, mostly in the background vocals.
     
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  6. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I have noticed we had been doing two songs a day on average, but seem to be now doing one song a day.
     
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  7. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I thought the Memphis sessions deserved a little more attention ...
    I hope that doesn't bug anyone.
     
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  8. I really like You'll Think Of Me. Fantastic vocal from Elvis, and once again the drums are just locked in to that groove. Elvis is clearly having fun, and you can hear him bleeding through on other mics (I'm assuming they turned his mic channel off in these parts when they were mixing) in the instrumental part beginning at 3:15, singing a counter melody.
     
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  9. JLGB

    JLGB Senior Member

    Location:
    D.R.
    To be fair, the "Moman level" had on it's side a very hungry and energetic artist that had to prove to himself and others that he still had it. The tremendous live and studio success that followed (seems to me), was relished by Elvis up until some time in 1970. After that, the success that followed was attained sans that hungry drive that could not be sustained especially when one adds personal problems with his wife, and the ever progressive addiction.
     
  10. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Agreed. It would be quite a slog through most of the 70s material though!
     
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  11. Revelator

    Revelator Disputatious cartoon animal.

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Another great thing about "You'll Think of Me" is that it complicates the "restless man" trope previously encountered in "Inherit the Wind." This time Elvis presents a less romantic attitude toward wanderlust--instead of a "dream in his brain" he's "got a heart that's haunted" and will tearfully regret his wandering. And instead of forever pining after him, the girl is guaranteed to find someone else, so in her "warm and loving bed," she won't think of him.
    The arrangement is, as usual for American Sound, exquisite, and the choral sitar sounds enough like a banjo to be appropriate for a song about wandering.
     
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  12. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    That is a bit dismissive with respect to what Moman was able to get out of Elvis. It implies that virtually any producer would have achieved greatness at that time simply because Elvis was allegedly hungry to prove he still had it. And anyone that is familiar with your position on this matter knows your veiled statement is more about defending Felton Jarvis than anything else -- the implication being that Jarvis did not subsequently achieve that same level of greatness as Moman simply because Elvis was no longer trying to prove anything.

    After the ratings success of the Singer Presents special in December, it seems likely that Elvis was taking his upcoming secular recording session more serious than normal. That said, it isn't as if there was a guarantee that Elvis was going to deliver two dozen recordings and singles to relaunch his recording career. Perhaps that was the goal on some level, but based on his secular track record in 1967 and 1968, with Jarvis at the helm, it isn't as if anything was ever consistently achieved. Had Elvis wound up in Nashville with Jarvis in January 1969, it may very well have been just another disjointed session with some good recordings, but not enough for two albums, and likely not delivering the hit material he ultimately recorded in Memphis. Moman was able to harness Elvis' hunger and energy, to push him to deliver his best work, and not stop until they had the desired results. There is no indication Jarvis had that same ability (was he truly willing to risk his relationship and status with Elvis by pushing and prodding him in the studio?) -- his previous secular work in 1967 and 1968, as well as his style and personal motivations, certainly does not suggest he was going to get Elvis to fulfill what was achieved in Memphis.
     
  13. Dave112

    Dave112 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Carolina
    I became a fan of Elvis in the 1970's as a kid. Most of the music that I heard in the 1970s on the radio was done with Jarvis. As much as I like the jungle room sessions, I doubt many producers like Moman would have been as accommodating as Jarvis. They probably would have had a word of prayer with Elvis and told him that he needed to get help for the drug problem first. Elvis did thrive on an interesting challenge but he needed an intervention more than anything especially by the mid 70's. The sycophants assured that he wouldn't have to deal with the reality of his drug problems.
     
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  14. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Elvis was not delusional with respect to his career. For example, he knew it was tanking circa 1968 and appreciated and respected the fact that Binder told him that it was. Had Elvis heard another candid and honest perspective from an outside record producer/party during the mid-1970's, it is more than likely he would have respected the message and agreed to try something new, to work hard toward delivering something of substance. Elvis loved the "goop," but it isn't as if anyone told him how problematic the "goop" had become and that the could do better. Jarvis knew what Elvis liked, knew what could get played on country stations, had a pipeline into that material, and couldn't risk alienating Elvis. Elvis was bored and disinterested in recording and between his lack of motivation and Jarvis' inability to inspire Elvis to reach his potential, the final results were mostly mediocre at best.
     
  15. JLGB

    JLGB Senior Member

    Location:
    D.R.
    When one overrates to hero level TV producer Steve Binder and American Sound producer Chips Moman, I find it takes away (dismissive), from the guy that actually did it. There was no stopping Elvis at that period.
     
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  16. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I don't think it is so much raising them to hero level.
    One super important thing a good producer does, is guide the band/artist by saying - bad idea, (and giving reasons) good idea (and giving reasons).
    One thing I noticed in Genesis' catalog, was that the last three albums suffer from the band being too big for the producer, who ends up essentially just being an engineer.
    As good as Elvis was with arrangements and production etc. He needed someone to push him. Someone who wasn't afraid to say "Hey mate, I know what you're going for here, but do you really just want the granny market? They are going to love you anyway, unless you're thinking of doing some Metal"
    Someone to remind him of '66. Someone to remind him that it is remarkable he got back up twice, and the third time might not be the charm.
    More than anything, Elvis needed someone with the guts from his own "Memphis Mafia" to have enough balls to say "Elvis, I love you man, but you're killing yourself ... and your music is suffering, because you're too detached"
    Unfortunately that never happened.
    Imagine a world where Elvis didn't go to Vegas straight after the American recordings.
    Imagine a world where Elvis told Parker to **** off in 1969.
    Imagine a world where someone managed to get the man's attention on the fact that his biggest problem was in a little pharmacy bottle.
     
  17. JLGB

    JLGB Senior Member

    Location:
    D.R.
    I should have stated some elevate them to hero level. But, Elvis was not the artist to push, in my opinion. With hindsight, everything can be fixed.
     
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  18. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    I agree with you completely. I know the melody may seem a little plodding, but Elvis really does carress the lyrics with his rather intimate and committed vocal. I guess it is his sheer commitment to the song that really stands out. I do not know how fond I would be of this song if someone other than Elvis had recorded it, but I also love Doug Flett and Guy Fletcher's very well written Just Pretend that Elvis would cut in 1970 for his very fine TTWII album. Bobby Wood's piano accompaniment is outstanding as well. I think Elvis referred to Bobby as "The most commercially successful piano player in the world" or something to that effect. Bobby Wood has played on virtually every Garth Brooks song ever recorded in a studio session, minus his controversial Chris Gaines project.
     
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  19. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    No one is overrating what Binder and Moman accomplished with Elvis to hero level, at least on this thread. With respect to your second sentence; no one has ever taken anything away from Elvis' focus and determination during the American Sound sessions. And certainly not because people acknowledge that Chips Moman directed and produced those sessions. With respect to your third sentence; there is no proof whatsoever that Elvis was unstoppable in January 1969. If anything, his work from the preceding several years strongly suggest that Elvis was far from unstoppable, and quite capable of delivering substandard results without proper direction and project management. He came across two individuals, Steve Binder and Chips Moman, who helped reshape his focus and harness his talent to help him reach his greatest potential. Of course he is the one that had to deliver, but without those two gentlemen, there is no indication that Elvis would have still produced the consistent and high quality work that he did in both Burbank and American Sound. Hero worship? Hardly. Acknowledgment of the high quality production work? Absolutely.
     
  20. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Pushed is a variable. It is knowing the guy. Knowing how and where to push ... not saying it's possible, but there are people out there who are very good at reading other people, and knowing how to guide them without appearing pushy.
    From my perspective, although minor league compared to the folks on here, Parker certainly knew how to push Elvis.
     
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  21. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    Two very fine posts here that I really think nails all the issues revolving around Felton Jarvis, who to me is neither a villain or hero here, but just a decent man and producer who made some pretty good music with Elvis, but eventually was unable to motivate his friend (Elvis) or challenge him in any real and meaningful new musical direction. I like the comparison with Billy Sherrill, who was a more gifted and hands on producer than Jarvis seemed to be, whom @PacificOceanBlue and I have both speculated might have produced in interesting album or two for Elvis, if he really wanted to stay in that country-pop mode. At least Billy Sherrill was a musician himself and well versed in a multitude of genre styles.

    Regardless of how one ultimately feels about Jarvis one way or the other, and I for one enjoy a lot of his productions on Elvis's recordings over those years, there is no question that the overall opinion of our Elvis experts on this fine thread are correct; Elvis stayed with Jarvis for far too long and should have been given a chance to work with other talented and gifted producers of the era. Elvis desperately needed the challenge of working with a fresh set of ears to help keep him "frosty," if nothing else.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  22. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    I feel exactly the same way. Wow, what a stupendous double sided single release and perhaps it could have achieved top 40 airplay on its own merits, if it had not been overwhelmed by the A side of the single (Suspicious Minds).
     
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  23. JLGB

    JLGB Senior Member

    Location:
    D.R.
    Without a doubt.
     
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  24. JLGB

    JLGB Senior Member

    Location:
    D.R.
    Yes. I am just of the opinion that Elvis was unable and unwilling to get to a recording studio on all cylinders (with few exceptions) after late 1970. An unhealthy in mind and or body artist, cannot give what he doesn't have.
     
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  25. BigBadWolf

    BigBadWolf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kernersville, NC
    I really think that at this point in his life he should've taken some time off, if not only to refresh and recharge, then at least to stop and figure out where he wanted his career to go. A nice little break for him, the fans, and the public at large.

    Then a return to the studio. No big publicity, just stating he's working on something. You get top notch material. You have a competent producer guiding things. Let the rumor mill run wild. Anticipation builds.

    By this point, it's been a few months, maybe 6 or 7, possibly even 8 since his last release. Press release come out. New Elvis album coming soon, preceded by a single from it. Can you imagine what the buzz would've been like? "I heard he's working with famous producer". "I heard this famous artist wrote a few songs for him".

    Oh, well...back to reality
     
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