Elvis Presley - The Albums and Singles Thread pt2 The Sixties

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road Thread Starter

    That's cool. I wasn't aware of the whole situation. I just thought it was cool if he did write a song
     
    Dave112 and RSteven like this.
  2. Revelator

    Revelator Disputatious cartoon animal.

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Yes, that's why he would have been the perfect producer for Elvis in that era. He could have certainly turned "Night Rider" into a less clunky record. Like a lot of up-tempo material from this period, it doesn't have much swing to it.

    It certainly could have been: Two guys with a love for big, epic sounds teaming up to make gigantic records. Spector would have made Elvis work very hard, and Elvis would have picked up useful info on production techniques.
    Later in life Elvis certainly tried to capture some of the Spector sound with his immense stage band and orchestra, in particular his cover of "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling."

    We'd probably have heard it by now if it did.

    Agreed. In any case, Red West at his best was an excellent writer and Elvis's version of "That's Someone You'll Never Forget" is a masterpiece. I would place it among his greatest recordings.
     
    Iceman08, RSteven and mark winstanley like this.
  3. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I think Spector producing Elvis would have been a horrible mismatch, a real "mixing oil and water" type of situation. Spector was a perfectionist who painstakingly assembled his tracks piece-by-piece, whereas Elvis was all about spontaneity and feel, recording his tracks live with the band in one shot. For Elvis, it was all about finding the take with the right feel, even if it might have a mistake in it. I'm not much of a Spector fan and I think his approach tended to render everything sterile, whereas "sterile" is that last word you'd use to describe any Elvis record (even the bad ones). Beyond that, I find Spector's sound to be bombastic, cluttered, and cacaphonous. Even on the tracks where Elvis used a big band, his records never sound cluttered. And that's not even getting into the contrast between the crystal-clear Bill Porter sound and the sonic sludgefest of Spector. It would have been two very different aesthetics clashing and I don't see a way they could be reconciled productively.

    Have to respectfully disagree with this also. I think it's an average song which gets more attention than it deserves simply because Elvis' name is in the songwriting credits. Too many defensive Elvis fans get sucked into the songwriter-centric bias and want to believe this was Elvis writing a song. Out of the half-dozen or so Red West songs Elvis did, this isn't the best one by any means.
     
    Dave112 and DirkM like this.
  4. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road Thread Starter

    the Spector thing would have been interesting, whether good or not we'll never know
    That's someone you'll never forget - i liked it before I knew he had a writing credit on it
     
    RSteven likes this.
  5. kreen

    kreen Forum Resident

    Now that I think of it, Spector's style would have been perfect for Elvis -- in the Seventies. In the 1970's, both Elvis and Spector were into slow, heavy, mournful ballad-type music. Most of Spector's work from that era has been termed "funeral music". That style would have been perfect for an album like From Elvis Presley Boulevard.
     
    Iceman08, RSteven and mark winstanley like this.
  6. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Oh I don't know the SOUND of You've Lost That Loving Feeling is much better on That's The Way It Is than the Righteous Brothers' version. I think the performance is too, but that is another argument entirely. I am NOT a fan of "wall of sound" that seems to dominate a lot of modern recordings too, even though different techniques are used. I am more into sparse, dynamic and crystal clear recordings with little or no reverb.
     
  7. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road Thread Starter

    each to their own guys.
    I like wall of sound stuff
    I like sparse stuff
     
    RSteven, Revelator and artfromtex like this.
  8. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road Thread Starter

    NME 1962 JULY 13
    [​IMG]
     
    RSteven and artfromtex like this.
  9. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    I am with both of you on all of these statements. Firstly, I am a fan of Spector's wall of sound on You've Lost That Loving Feeling, and yet I think Elvis's live versions from Las Vegas in 1970 blows it away, mainly because Elvis slows the tempo down just a tad and draws out every last ounce of emotion and passion from this song. I do think Spector would have been an interesting choice as a producer for at least an album or two as any change from the routine might have injected Elvis career with a new spark at this point.
     
    mark winstanley likes this.
  10. DirkM

    DirkM Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA, USA
    Re: Spector's production style, the bombastic, cluttered sound of those mid-60s singles was pretty much the point of it all. The idea was to blur all of the instruments together, so that the vocals floated above an otherworldly soundscape. Like it or hate it, songs like Walking In The Rain wouldn't have a fraction of their impact if one were to be able to clearly hear all of the instruments. Be it adult melodrama (You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling) or simple over-the-top teenaged emotions (Then He Kissed Me), Spector's best work really thrived by juxtaposing relatively unremarkable voices and lyrical sentiments against impossible-to-parse musical backdrops. You know that quote about how River Deep - Mountain High was like "if God hit the world and the world hit back"? It really applies to all of his best work.

    ...which is why I think he would have been terrible for Elvis. There was no room for subtlety in Spector's style, and there was no room for sonic experimentation in Elvis' style (at least not on the production level). Most importantly, as czeskleba said, Elvis was all about spontaneity and raw feeling...and whatever Spector's strengths, spontaneity and raw feeling weren't exactly amongst them.
     
  11. DirkM

    DirkM Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA, USA
    I suppose we're getting ahead of ourselves here with You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling, but I have to chime in and say that I find Elvis' versions of this song to be thoroughly unremarkable. By no means am I one of those fans who think that he shouldn't have covered other people's songs during his live engagements, but in this case, I don't think he succeeded at whatever he was trying to accomplish. The arrangement is plodding, and his vocal approach doesn't really fit the lyrics. The Spector/Righteous Brothers version is perfect because it sounds resigned, which is what the song is really about. The dreamy production is essential, because it captures that muddled feeling one gets when a relationship is falling apart. The bridge has a distinct feel from the rest of the song, where there's a measure of hope, a pleading sense that, somehow, everything will turn out all right (the funereal drums and downbeat backing vocals shoot this hope down at every opportunity).

    Elvis' arrangement has none of this richness, and his vocals seem to get stuck in one gear, never deviating from it. He almost sounds aggressive at times, which just doesn't work (it's not an accusatory song; it's a mournful one!). It doesn't help that he adds in inappropriate jokes at times, but then, he ruined many a live performance of Kentucky Rain that way (thankfully we have the immaculate version that's on the 1999 release of On Stage, which singehandedly redeems the many throwaway versions).
     
    mark winstanley likes this.
  12. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road Thread Starter

    [​IMG][​IMG]



    She's Not You

    Written By :
    Jerry Leiber, Mike Stoller & Doc Pomus

    Recorded :

    RCA's Studio B, Nashville, March 18-20, 1962 : March 19, 1962. splice take 3 and 5

    "She's Not You" is a 1962 song recorded by Elvis Presley and published by Gladys Music, Elvis Presley's publishing company. "She's Not You" reached No. 5 on the Billboard Hot 100 and No. 13 on the R&B chart.[2] In the UK, the single reached No. 1 where it stayed for three weeks.[3] It was written by Doc Pomus in collaboration with Leiber and Stoller.[4]

    It was released by Presley in the key of F major.

    Episode 1 of the 2004 BBC miniseries Blackpool featured the Presley recording, accompanied on screen by the singing and dancing of the characters, as part of the story.

    Chris Isaak covered this song on his 2011 album, Beyond the Sun.
    ------------------------------------------
    This is another semi-ballad, another damn fine one too. This is a strutting little number with another very smooth Elvis vocal. I think in this song the female backing singers work really well. It's a very nice arrangement and and the plucky guitar keeps us strutting along.


     
    Iceman08, Dave112 and RSteven like this.
  13. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road Thread Starter

    Just Tell Her Jim Said Hello
    Written By :
    Jerry Leiber & Mike Stoller

    Recorded :

    RCA's Studio B, Nashville, March 18-20, 1962 : March 19, 1962

    I really like this song. It has an excellent melody and my guess is it is kind of a bossa nova feel (sorry, knowing those rhythms aren't my strong suite)
    It's another plucky little number that is almost defiant in the face of the lyrics. Again the instrumentation and the arrangement are great. The repeated riff sounds to have a multilayered approach with at least a couple of instruments playing it. Another winner for Elvis.

     
    Iceman08, hugh . g., Brian Mc and 2 others like this.
  14. Dave112

    Dave112 Forum Resident

    I can see your side of it czeskleba but considering some of the albums that we will be exploring soon, I'd like to see what they could have done together. I very much doubt Col. Parker would have greenlighted a project like that given his stance in '68 during the planning of the tv special. It's fun to imagine several scenarios during the mid 1960's. What if Elvis had bypassed the Colonel and asked Bob Dylan to write something for him or Smokey Robinson or Lennon and McCartney? They probably would have written a great song with his singing style in mind. Definitely better than those movie tunes.
     
    mark winstanley and RSteven like this.
  15. DirkM

    DirkM Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA, USA
    I love, love, love Just Tell Her Jim Said Hello, even if the early takes are a bit less intrusive than the master. Either way, it's a gorgeous performance, and I'm not surprised that Elvis' publisher thought that it would be the more successful side of the single (in artistic terms, it's certainly far superior to She's Not You).
     
  16. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    I really hate that mindset because it only slightly makes sense to me if the singer is just a run of the mill poppy singer. However, if they are unique vocalists with a style and interpretive skill all their own, than they are every bit as much of an artist because their approach to the material is what turns the song into even greater art.
    The Beatles tend to be the act that sort of set in motion being more artistic if you write your own material. However, The Beatles were not discovered or signed because of their songwriting.
    They were discovered and signed because of their great renditions of other artist's songs and their charming and energetic stage presence.
    To this day some of Lennon's very best vocals are on covers.
    Songs he made his own.
    John is every bit the artist on Money, Twist and Shout, Please Mister Postman, Rock and Roll Music, Anna, You Really Got A Hold On Me, Baby It's You as he is on many songs he wrote and certainty more so than some of his written filler.
    Does anyone really want to hear Willie Nelson version of Crazy over Patsy Cline's?
    And most agree that Joe Cocker wasn't lacking as an artist on his reinvention of With A Little Help From My Friends.
    Bob Dylan said of Elvis' recording of Tomorrow Is A Long Time, that it was the one recording he treasures the most and is his favorite of all the covers of his songs.
    Elvis totally adds a sentimentality to it that Dylan just didn't have.
    I actually love Dylan's darker version too.
    Nevertheless Elvis vision on the song is just as valid.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  17. Dave112

    Dave112 Forum Resident

    I don't know exactly who is responsible for these cover photos but they sure like BIG hair. What is up with this series of cover photos?
     
    mark winstanley likes this.
  18. NumberEight

    NumberEight Came too late and stayed too long

    My turn to disagree respectfully. That’s Someone You Never Forget is one of my favourite Elvis songs from the Sixties, not because he did or didn't write it, but because it’s one of his most heartwrenching vocals ever.
     
  19. artfromtex

    artfromtex Honky Tonkin' Metal-Head

    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    I love this song so much. There really is no one remarkable thing about it. But overall it is just a fantastic, enjoyable song. Once again, it is a song that simply puts a smile on my face. Elvis' early 60's pop stuff is probably my favorite music of all time. Pure ear candy.
     
    Iceman08, hugh . g., DirkM and 3 others like this.
  20. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    I really do love this splendid single as well, both sides actually show off Elvis's great range and vocal ability; She's Not You shows his lower and upper register strength and Just Tell Her Jim Said Hello shows his great tenor range.

    I remember my parents playing the 45 that my father brought home from his radio station, XEAK (The Mighty 690) in San Diego, CA. My father was PD and a part owner of the station with his brother and sister. The Mighty 690 was a pretty powerful station, both figuratively and literally as it was a 50,000 watt "border blaster" and it also featured Wolfman Jack in his early days of broadcasting. I know my father helped to break a lot of early rock 'n' roll records in the late 50's and early 60's like Summertime Blues by Eddie Cochran as well as many of Elvis's early hit singles.

    It's funny, because I was just a young kid when my parents would play those old 45's and I wasn't even a huge Elvis fan yet as that would not take place until my teenage years, but I so remember playing Just Tell Her Jim Said Hello over and over again myself and thinking that high voice on the second verse was a female singer and not Elvis singing because it was so high. Wow, an interesting duet I thought to myself! Thats how great the guy's range was to a young kid, who did not really know or understand Elvis's great voice at the time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  21. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    Yes indeed, I will second you on hating that mindset as well as we would have to say Frank Sinatra and Nat King Cole just cannot be considered great artists, since they did not write the vast majority of their songs. It is so ridiculous a standard and yet some people still stand by that truly misguided opinion that you cannot be a great music artist if you do not write your own material.
     
  22. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Yet, many who claim that, have a bunch of music by singers who didn't write.
     
    RSteven and mark winstanley like this.
  23. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    It's a Leiber/Stoller two-fer, and "She's Not You" is notable as the final song written expressly for Elvis by Leiber/Stoller (due to the Colonel's shenanigans, they weren't willing to do it anymore after the 50s, with this one exception). From an interview with Stoller:

    "We virtually stopped writing for Elvis after that. After King Creole, the only songs we submitted to Elvis were songs that we'd already written or recorded before.

    Wasn't Just Tell Her Jim Said Hello written for Elvis?

    No, it wasn't. As a matter of fact, with one exception, we stopped writing for him altogether and only submitted previously written and already recorded songs. As for Just Tell Her Jim Said Hello, we had a demo that was considerably different than the way Elvis did it. It had a very different feel, less country, more Latin.

    The one exception was She's Not You.

    Right. Doc Pomus called us up one day. We were all in the Brill Building. Doc was an old friend, and we had produced lots of Doc and Morty's [Shuman] songs with The Drifters. Mort had either gone off to Japan or moved to Paris. Doc called us and said, 'Come on up. Let's write a song for Elvis'. So we wrote She's Not You with him, the three of us. That was written for Elvis at Doc's request."
     
    Revelator and mark winstanley like this.
  24. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Boy, I disagree. I LOVE "She's Not You." What a great song. One thing I've always loved is the way Elvis phrases "feels the same" the last time he sings it, elliding the "the" so it sounds like "It almost feelssame." Somehow, that really suggests his vulnerability and resignation. One of my favorite singles of the early 60s.
     
  25. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road Thread Starter

    both great songs in my ears
     
    RSteven and Brian Mc like this.

Share This Page