Elvis Presley - The Albums and Singles Thread pt2 The Sixties

Not really accurate. Comparing shows from the Spring 1970 and Summer 1974 Vegas seasons, duplicated songs in bold. If McCartney’s set changed a lot between 1972 and 1976, and it did, Elvis’s set changed just as much between 1970 and 1974.

February 23rd, 1970

1. All Shook Up
2. I Got A Woman
3. Long Tall Sally
4. Don’t Cry Daddy
5. Hound Dog
6. Love Me Tender
7. Kentucky Rain
8. Let It Be Me
9. I Can’t Stop Loving You
10. See See Rider
11. Sweet Caroline
12. Polk Salad Annie
13. Introductions
14. Lawdy Miss Clawdy
15. Heartbreak Hotel
16. One Night
17. It’s Now Or Never
18. Suspicious Minds
19. Can’t Help Falling In Love

August 21, 1974

1. See See Rider
2. I Got A Woman
3. Love Me
4. If You Love Me (Let me Know)
5. It's Midnight
6. Big Boss Man
7. Fever
8. Love Me Tender
9. All Shook Up
10. Dialogue
11. I'm Leavin'
12. Softly As I Leave You
13. Hound Dog
14. You Gave Me A Mountain
15. Polk Salad Annie
16. Introductions
17. If You Talk In Your Sleep
18. Why Me Lord
19. Teddy Bear/Don't Be Cruel
20. Hawaiian Wedding Song
21. The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face (incomplete)
22. Let Me Be There
23. Can’t Help Falling In Love
24. Closing Vamp

 

Neat.

But (i) you've chosen February 1970 (which deliberately included new material for the purpose of recording an LP); and

(ii) you've chosen a known outlier for the 1974 set list.​

What would the comparison look like if you compared a typical set list from 1972 to one from 1974-77?

 

The known outlier from 74 is opening night of that season, which included a one-time only performance of Good Time Charlie’s Got The Blues, a rare performance of Down In The Alley, etc. It’s Midnight, If You Talk In Your Sleep, Let Me Be There, etc. stayed in the 1974 set. Saying he only added new material for recording an LP in 1970 doesn’t change the fact that he added new material. Does the new material Neil Young added to his set in 1972/73 to record Time Fades Away not count as new material? Then Elvis added seven or eight even newer songs in the second half of 1970: Bridge Over Troubled Water, You’ve Lost That Loving Feeling, Just Pretend, Something, Patch It Up, You Don’t Have To Say You Love Me, etc.

In 1972, he often performed the following songs that he didn’t perform in 1970: Never Been To Spain, Until It’s Time For You To Go, Funny How Time Slips Away, What Now My Love, My Way, The Impossible Dream, American Trilogy, etc.

But, sure, keep on repeating the blanket statement that “Elvis never changed his setlist.”

 

Richard can say all he likes, but I posted facts. If he wants to spin Elvis’ Las Vegas engagements, that is certainly his prerogative, but the 1969 deal grossed Elvis $9,000.00 per show, a pittance for an artist of Elvis’ stature. Alex Shoofey said the casino got Elvis cheaply, and was surprised Parker underbid Elvis’ services — it will be interesting to see how Richard confronts that tidbit, or ignores it entirely. The Las Vegas contracts were not Tom Parker’s finest hour as a deal maker.

 

I get the strong feeling that I am going to enjoy reading his book Elvis In Vegas a lot more than you are. Well, you know he's just a senior editor at Time Magazine with over 20 years experience there as a writer, but what does he know, right?

 

Gonna travel, gonna travel wild and free....
I'm gonna pack my bags because this world is calling me...

 

The issue for me personally is less that "Elvis never changed his setlist" (a statement that is patently false) and more one of structure. While yes artists do tend to perform the same songs they also tend to change the structure of the setlist as well. That is arguably more successful for keeping things fresh than just swapping out the songs as it keeps the songs people want to hear in. After about 1974 Elvis ceased doing this and that's when they become (subjectively) bland.

@Spencer R while you make an interesting argument that Elvis in fact did/didn't change his setlist any more or less than the average artist you have in my opinion made two crucial errors in your argument; first, equating a difference between a 1970 concert and a 1974 concert as proof that Elvis was constantly changing his setlist (while not taking into account that this does not hold true for 1974 compared to a later year) and second, that Elvis throwing in a whole bunch of songs in 1974 is proof that Elvis was constantly swapping songs in and out of the concerts (which in this case doesn't hold true because those songs that he added in 1974 became the backbone of his final 3 years, and he did not repeat the above action in 1975, or 1976, or 1977).

The long and short of it is that when we complain "oh I wish Elvis was more open to changing up his setlist now and then" we're typically referring to 1974-1977, not 1970-1974 when he was changing up the structure more often.

That's really what it is at the end of the day though, a wish. I've always been a little befuddled by the consistent focus on Elvis' setlists when those were more minor symptoms compared to the mental and physical decline he faced in the latter years.

 

Well said my friend, but I still think that music or a song could snap Elvis back to a happy time or place even if it was for only an hour or two. I don't think he ever lost his love for music completely or his desire to sing a great song when it touched him. I will still take Elvis's later versions of Hurt, Danny Boy or Unchained Melody over a lot of the mediocrity of some of the movie soundtrack material, although now I have even gained a new respect for some of those songs from reading this fine thread that @mark winstanley started.

 

I thought we were gonna be starting Elvis for Everyone today, but instead it turned into big-time thread drift (and I'm as guilty as anyone). My contribution to put us back on topic: Elvis and Jack Mullaney in full Dean and Jerry mode at the conclusion of Tickle Me:

 

As always, I agree that 1975-77 was tough for Elvis. My biggest peeve is how so many casual listeners take it for granted that the train wreck we see in the infamous 1977 CBS special accurately represents the entirety of Elvis’s 70s career. It doesn’t. In 1969 and 1970, he was as good as anyone ever has been. And from 1969 to 1974, he did add new material to his setlist far more frequently than the “Elvis trotted out the same Vegas setlist every night” myth would have it. And, for the millionth time, the naysayers are holding Elvis to a standard the few of his 70s peers could match. Elvis played Polk Salad Annie for several years? Yes, he did. From 1969 to 1975, Led Zeppelin played Dazed and Confused at pretty much every concert they ever gave. From the time they debuted Whole Lotta Love and Stairway To Heaven, those songs never left their setlist. Once U2 debuted Where The Streets Have No Name, it stayed in their setlist every night for two decades. Artists play big crowd pleasing hits in concert because they’re trying to please the crowd at the concert that night. A fan in 1972 who was knocked out by Elvis singing Bridge Over Troubled Water likely wasn’t upset that Elvis had been singing that song for two years. He was seeing Elvis once, that night. Elvis wasn’t trying to impress bootleg collectors decades in the future who might own a dozen different 1972 soundboards. Despite that, he still changed up his repertoire far more than the conventional wisdom would have you believe.

 

I think it is hysterical that you are blowing up this myth that has prevailed on this forum for so long with actual facts and comparisons with other legacy acts. I am so glad to know that you have not swallowed the Cool Aid like so many others have. It is such a breath of fresh air to say the least. Now let us hope that Mark steers us back to a review of Elvis For Everyone by tomorrow or we will have nothing left to talk about when we get to the seventies thread.

 

I wanted everybody to have a free day and discuss the movie soundtrack or whatever... The concert stuff is fairly new to me so the discussion is intriguing to me.... Forgive my self indulgence

 

I feel Elvis would have received plenty of coverage no matter where he actually decided to go back on stage after the comeback special.
The 68 special and the Memphis album should have made Elvis the biggest ticket in the world, but it was a different world. Even so, I still stand by that initial statement.
Elvis was still the biggest star around the music business. Sure the Beatles were huge, but three things ... there were four of them... they hadn't played a show in five years .... they were about to throw it all away.
The stage was set for someone to come in and knock the pins down .... If Parker wasn't shackled to the States, or he had the guts to let his star go around the world without him ... we would have a very different vision ... but alas that isn't how it rolled.
All through the sixties management had made gutless decisions with the biggest rock and roll star that ever lived. Stay doing the money spinner movies. Sell the soundtracks, because they're easy. Easy Easy Easy .... That was the example that Elvis was set, and I love the guy, but he wasn't a business man ... Elvis probably had control over what songs they could do in his shows, but what was the example his management had set, gutless and easy ... I'm not saying Elvis was gutless, just that he was following the example that had been set for him for twenty years ... In his mind they like these songs, I suppose we play them. Instead of shaking it up too much and giving the dangerous side of performing a go ... Then we also have his fears etc ... Remember he wanted to pull out of the special at the last minute too ....
I don't know what I'm trying to say really, just having a train of thought. Maybe you can set me straight, or pull something out of that.

 

Well, I just have to go back to @Spencer R's greater point. Instead of dwelling on what might have been, I will choose to remember the highlights of Elvis's career and of course I think the initial Las Vegas residency was one of them. Elvis had many highlights during his amazing career; the early breakthrough at Sun, the amazing early television performance on the Dorsey Brothers and Ed Sullivan, the comeback after the Army with the Sinatra Welcome Back Special and the Elvis Is Back album. Later would come How Great Thou Art, The 68 Comeback Special, From Elvis In Memphis, His record setting stand in Vegas, the two great concert documentaries, His record setting stand at MSG, and his worldwide Aloha Concert Special. In between those events was a lot of great music and some not so great music, but the truly outstanding parts of his career outweighs the bad by a long shot in my opinion.

 

I don’t what he knows about Elvis, or how thorough his research was and what it uncovered. The fact that he seems to rave about Elvis’ financial deal from the blurb you posted is a cause for concern. With respect to Zoglin’s “status,” Albert Goldman also had a noteworthy resume, but he was far from a reliable source or authority on Elvis, as such, that in itself is not particularly persuasive.

 

Maybe we should both wait to read the book, but I do not think it is going to change your mind one bit, even if it was loaded with facts that contradict your theory. I think you hold your views on Elvis as being omnipotent, and I have never seen you really reverse yourself on any position you have taken on this board. I try my level best to keep myself open to argument and this thread itself has led me to change my position regarding the overall quality of Elvis's soundtrack material. I have no doubt that no amount of persuasion by someone who has over 20 years of experience with Time Magazine is going to impress you in the least.

 

The irony with this “set list” discussion is that no one has suggested that other artists generally changed their set lists while Elvis did not. That really has never been the narrative here.

During the 1970’s, Elvis established a formula that he rarely deviated from. That is not a myth, but a verifiable reality. Each year or touring cycle generally stayed faithful to a particular set-list with perhaps a few interchangeable songs. Even so, many standard pieces remained in place year after year. It was a tired and often uninspired sequence, and one that saw Elvis ignoring a significant amount of his own dynamic catalogue. That is where the disappointment lies for many.

 

Well, the issue is that I am not presenting a theory with respect to the contracts and financial dealings of Elvis’ Las Vegas work. It has been well-documented in the historical record, so I will be shocked, as will numbers of Elvis scholars, if Zoglin reveals “facts” that contradict the historical record.

If his intention is to present a theory or narrative that Elvis’ work in Las Vegas post-1970 was artistically fulfilling, and that Elvis did not personally and professionally suffer, he has every right to present his take. Nevertheless, if that is indeed the direction of his narrative, it will be refuted, regardless of his tenure at Time. That said, no one denies that the success of Elvis’ residency has had a lasting impact for other top-tier artists.

 

I firmly disagree as the historical record at the time described Elvis engagement as historical from a financial standpoint as well. This is documented in the Jerry Hopkins biography on Elvis in 1971 and this is the closest to a contemporanous account of events as we can get. According to Nick Naff, the International's publicity head, Barbara Streisand's contract was the largest in Vegas at the time and was a complicated million-dollar stock and capitol deal for four years. Elvis was guaranteed the million dollars too as well as "extras" such as rooms and transportation, so the Colonel and Elvis could say they indeed got more than Ms. Streisand. In the past, you have indicated that Elvis had to pay for his own rooms as well, something that no Vegas headliner has ever had to do. I do not know where you get your financial information on Elvis's initial gig in Las Vegas, but I find it to be highly unreliable to say the least.

 

Elvis’ initial deal was actually $400,000.00 ($100,000.00 per week), bumped to $500,000.00 after the opening night performance (which again, amounted to roughly $9,000.00 per show over the course of Elvis' month-long residency in July/August 1969), not $1,000,000.00. Highly unreliable? If you think Ernst Jorgensen, Peter Guralnick and Alanna Nash are unreliable, all who have published the financials for Elvis' first contract in Las Vegas, then one wonders what published Elvis works you have spent time with (other than Hopkins' outdated 1971 manuscript). It is a verifiable, established fact that Elvis only earned $500,000.00 from his first Las Vegas deal, and that he was responsible for his expenses. You seem to be so caught up in some sort of fairytale narrative about Elvis' Las Vegas period that you are defying verifiable, factual information about Elvis' financial deals, presented in a number of publications by respected Presley biographers and historians, simply because they contradict some fantasy. The irony is that Streisand got the more valuable deal.

It is well-known that after the opening night 1969 performance concluded, Parker met with Shoofey to renegotiate the 1969 deal and negotiate for subsequent engagements (the terms which were written out on a table cloth). It was then that Parker got Elvis $1,000.000.00 for subsequent engagements (up to two per year), for five years worth of work! Shookey was baffled that Parker locked Elvis into such a long-term deal, one without a sliding scale. "He says, 'now tell me again. You'll give me the same money for five years?'" remembers Shookey. "And I said, 'Absolutely.' I mean, this was unheard of that anybody would sign for five years for the same amount of money, no increase." (Nash, "The Colonel," Page 255). Gordon Stocker of The Jordinaires said he heard Shoofey and others boasting that they had gotten the biggest name in show business for the least amount of money. (Nash, "The Colonel," Page 255). It will be interesting to see how Zoglin spins the numbers.

Parker grossly underbid Elvis from the start ($400,000.00!), and left a lot of money on the table, especially considering Elvis' presence played a significant part in selling out the hotel and putting record numbers of patrons in the showroom, its restaurants, and casino. The International made a fortune from Elvis, and Parker could have demanded a much more lucrative deal for his client. Was it that Parker was out-of-touch and overmatched, or did Parker have other motivations (i.e. granting the Casino a favorable deal so that there would be leniency for his growing gambling debts)?

 

When this thread finally gets back on track (hint, hint), I think we’ll find that in 1965 Elvis is continuing to add material to his repertoire at an alarming rate, much of it subpar to say the least...

 

Elvis for Everyone!




Studio album by
Elvis Presley
Released August 10, 1965
Recorded July 1954 to January 1964
Genre Rock
Length 23:58
Label RCA Victor
Producer Sam Phillips, Steve Sholes, Chet Atkins, Elvis Presley, Urban Thielmann, Hans Salter, George Stoll

Sessions in late May 1963 failed to coalesce into his fifth studio album of the 1960s, and by 1965 Presley's musical output had been focused exclusively on his movie career and soundtrack output.[3] He had not released a proper studio album since Pot Luck in June 1962, although seven non-movie singles had been issued since. RCA Victor invented the concept of an "Anniversary Album" to celebrate Presley's tenth year with the label, which became Elvis For Everyone.[4]The album's cover depicting Presley standing next to the RCA Victor trademark Nipper the dog, sitting atop a cash register. Since May 1963, Presley had only made one non-movie session in January 1964 that yielded a mere three tracks, two of which had already been issued as sides for singles. Bereft of new material, RCA Victor assembled this album from unused tracks going all the way back to the Sun Records years, from sessions for both soundtracks and regular commercial releases. Possibly owing to its assembly from scraps and rejects, although it made the top ten on the LP chart, it was the first Presley album to sell fewer than 300,000 copies during the decade.[5]

Of the tracks on Elvis for Everyone! only "Summer Kisses, Winter Tears," recorded for but not used in the film Flaming Star, had previously been issued, on the extended play single Elvis by Request: Flaming Star and 3 Other Great Songs. Several tracks had appeared on film, but had not been issued on record before. "In My Way" had appeared in the 1961 film Wild in the Country, "Sound Advice" in the 1962 film Follow That Dream, and the traditional Neapolitan ballad "Santa Lucia" in the 1964 outing Viva Las Vegas. The remaining eight tracks had been unissued in any form. The Sun ballad "Tomorrow Night" had overdubs added for release on this album; it would not be officially issued in its original form for another two decades with the compilation, The Complete Sun Sessions in 1987.[6]

RCA had intended to include the unreleased Sun Records track "Tennessee Saturday Night," but withdrew it from the album and replaced it with "Tomorrow Night".[7] Neither has reference to a Presley Sun recording with this title ever been mentioned in any other source, nor has a Presley Sun recording with this title ever been discovered, although a song entitled "Tennessee Saturday Night" was slated for Loving You but not recorded.[8]

In its format as a compilation of mostly unissued leftovers from various sessions, and given its rather short running time, this album anticipated the Presley budget releases with a similar concept that would appear during the late 1960s and early 1970s on the low priced RCA Camden label. RCA opted not to include it as part of its reissue program, appending its songs as bonus tracks to other albums as appropriate, with the overdubbed version of "Tomorrow Night" being ultimately replaced by the original Sun Records master version in general circulation.

Side one
1. "Your Cheatin' Heart" Hank Williams February 1, 1958 2:24
2. "Summer Kisses, Winter Tears" (unused song from Flaming Star) Fred Wise, Ben Weisman, Jack Lloyd August 8, 1960 2:17
3. "Finders Keepers, Losers Weepers" Dory Jones, Ollie Jones May 26, 1963 1:47
4. "In My Way" (from Wild in the Country) Fred Wise, Ben Weisman November 7, 1960 1:19
5. "Tomorrow Night" Sam Coslow, Wilhelm Grosz September 10, 1954 2:58
6. "Memphis, Tennessee" Chuck Berry January 12, 1964 2:08
Side two
1. "For the Millionth and the Last Time" Roy C. Bennett, Sid Tepper October 15, 1961 2:05
2. "Forget Me Never" Fred Wise, Ben Weisman November 7, 1960 1:35
3. "Sound Advice" (from Follow That Dream) Bernie Baum, Bill Giant, Florence Kaye July 2, 1961 1:45
4. "Santa Lucia" (from Viva Las Vegas) Traditional; arranged by Elvis Presley July 10, 1963 1:11
5. "I Met Her Today" Hal Blair, Don Robertson October 15, 1961 2:42
6. "When It Rains, It Really Pours" William R. Emerson February 24, 1957 1:47
FTD
13. "Flaming Star"
14. "Wild In The Country" (U.K. stereo LP version)
15. "Lonely Man"
16. "Mama"
17. "Plantation Rock"
18. "Night Life"
19. "Do The Vega"
20. "Yellow Rose Of Texas" / "The Eyes Of Texas" (medley)
21. "What Now, What Next, Where To"
22. "Western Union"
23. "Blue River"
24. "Tell Me Why"

1. "For The Millionth And The Last Time" (take 2)
2. "Lonely Man" (take 9)
3. "I Slipped, I Stumbled, I Fell" (take 10)
4. "No More" (take 9)
5. "Slicin’ Sand" (take 10)
6. "I’m Not The Marrying Kind" (splice of takes 5 & 6)
7. "For The Millionth And The Last Time" (take 6)
8. "I Met Her Today" (take 7)
9. "King Of The Whole Wide World" (take 6)
10. "Home Is Where The Heart Is" (take 12)
11. "Riding The Rainbow" (take 6)
12. "This Is Living" (take 8)
13. "Something Blue" (takes 5 & 6)
14. "Gonna Get Back Home Somehow" (take 6)
15. "I Feel That I’ve Known You Forever" (take 2)
16. "Fountain Of Love" (take 6)
17. "Happy Ending" (take 9)
18. "I’m Falling In Love Tonight" (take 5)
19. "How Would You Like To Be" (take 1)
20. "Bossa Nova Baby" (takes 4 & 5) 2:34
21. "I Think I’m Gonna Like It Here" (remake take 15)
22. "Vino, Dinero Y Amor" (take 1)
23. "The Bullfighter Was A Lady" (remake take 10)
-----------------------------------------------------------
This is such a strange way of putting together an album. Certainly not one of Elvis' better albums, but there is still some great stuff to be heard here.
We have a scenario here where it is July 1965 and Elvis Hasn't been in a studio since June 64, for the Girl Happy sessions. In fact from what I can gather Elvis only recorded the songs for Girl Happy and Roustabout in 64.
For the most part 64 and 65 seem to be a melange of unusual re-releases and oddities and strange managerial decisions that certainly weren't doing Elvis' musical legacy any huge favours.
I'm not altogether sure why Elvis wasn't going into the studio
- Lack of songs?
- Too many Movie schedules?
- Complete lack of interest?
I don't really know what the story is, but Elvis For Everyone was never going to be the album to put him back on top, and surely somebody realised that. As a stop gap to get something in the market place, I guess it makes sense, but on the whole Elvis needed an album that wasn't a soundtrack, that re-established him as relevant ... I'm not saying he needed to make a "rock" album or a "psychedelic" album or something, but someone should have been gathering suitable songs (A&R guy anywhere?) and getting their boy in the studio with a bunch of inspiring songs that could break this rut .... but yet again it seemed to be a case of, "well we can put this out, it's stuff we already rejected, but it's product for the shelf"

So many head scratching decisions being made, it befuddles me......

Anyway
What are your thoughts on this album, the process and this weird mentality of just releasing all this older material for over a year?
Let us know the thoughts going through your hearts and heads about all this and we'll hit the first couple of songs in the morning

 

We're Here

 

Darn interweb. This is the picture I meant to include in my post above:

 

I enjoy listening to Elvis For Everyone in much the same way that I enjoy listening to The Beatles Yesterday... and Today. I never know what's coming next.