Elvis Presley - The Albums and Singles Thread pt3 The Seventies

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, May 26, 2019.

  1. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Since there's been some discussion about the different versions of this show available, I thought I'd upload a comparison clip of Lawdy Miss Clawdy. The clip is here.

    What this contains is about 40 seconds of the original mix, the FTD remix, and the Legacy remix (in that order). A few comments:

    1. On the original mix, you can hear the fake crowd noise/applause added as the track begins
    2. The FTD remix has a substantial amount of digital reverb added. Also, it is mixed much less widely than the original mix. As far as mastering goes, it's digitally compressed and was quite loud in its original form (I had to significantly lower the volume on this clip to make it match the other two clips).
    3. The Legacy remix is similar to the original mix in terms of stereo spread, instrumental placement, and lack of reverb. However, Elvis' voice is notably lower in the mix than either previous mix.

    It's sad that the complete show has been remixed twice and they didn't get it right either time. It's really pick your poison if you want to hear the complete show. For me, the Legacy is the lesser of two evils... the FTD remix sounds boxey and claustrophobic, as well as boomy and unnatural due to the reverb. And the mastering is lousy. The Legacy has great mastering with good dynamic range and a natural, clear sound, but it's frustrating to have Elvis' vocals too low. Fortunately, I agree with everyone who has said that Jarvis got it right with the original album edit, cutting the right things to make a stronger presentation. 95% of the time when I want to hear this show, it's the original mix I reach for.
     
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  2. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    Thanks for posting that comparison, Jason, I really appreciate it. I have the original mix of course and the legacy version of the extended concert, and I was wondering whether it was worth getting the FTD version, but I have to say that just on the sonics alone, I will mostly be sticking to the original mix version, which is the one on the RCA Album Collection, is that correct? I do not like either of the alternatives very much to be honest.
     
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  3. I've wondered about that statement I boldfaced - beat the bootleggers? To the best of my knowledge, I don't think more than a handful - if even that many - Elvis concerts were bootlegged up to that point. Underground Elvis boots weren't really a thing at this point in time, surely his fan base wouldn't know where to get them. Yeah, Beatles/Stones/Zep/Dylan boots were gaining traction in this period but the fans of those bands knew where to obtain them. Point is, this part of the story doesn't make much sense.
     
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  4. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    The original mix version in my clip is from the Complete Masters box, but I believe the RCA Album Collection features the exact same mastering (by Vic Anesini).
     
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  5. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    Thanks, that's what I thought, and I have both the Complete Masters box and the RCA Album Collection as well. I just love the overall sound of Elvis's voice and the warmth of the original mix version that you posted. I think Vic did a fine job on the remaster for the Legacy version, but I do find the remixing on it less desirable, based on the clip you posted. It's not terrible by any means, but I find it slightly inferior to the original mix.
     
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  6. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I believe you can also get the original mix on the 5 CD box Original Album Classics which features 5 live albums. TV Special (expanded), On Stage, TTWII, Aloha and Memphis.
     
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  7. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    The extent to which Failtone Jarvis added audience reactions on the original mix is simply vulgar and grotesque. It is like putting catsup on a fine T-bone.
     
  8. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    All said and done, I would have to give the nod to the Legacy Edition. But I so seldom listen to this concert in any case.
     
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  9. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southwest
    No, it doesn't. If anything Bonja could be mixing up the 1972 MSG concerts with Memphis, where RCA quickly issued the live album a little over a week after the concerts took place, whereas the Memphis live album was issued over three months later after it was captured on tape.
     
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  10. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southwest
    I think the Legacy Edition mix is significantly inferior to the original mix. I can't believe it made it past quality control. If having the complete show in listenable form is important to you, the FTD version is a must because the Legacy Edition is a failure. Some fans hate the reverb on the FTD version, but I really don't mind it. Somehow it works and arguably enhances the live atmosphere -- and most importantly, Elvis is upfront in the mix where he belongs. That said, it is not a great concert in its entirety because there are more than a few lackluster performances, so the original mix should suffice.
     
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  11. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    Thanks POB, I am going to give that FTD a shot. I really want the whole concert and I am okay with a little reverb as long as Elvis's voice is still upfront in the mix, besides an arena concert naturally has some built in reverb when you there in person, so thats not totally unnatural sounding. I've also learned to trust your ears whenever it comes to remastering or remixing issues on Elvis.
     
  12. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I know we've been 'round the block about this before, but I would say the same thing about the FTD mix... that it's significantly inferior to the original mix, and it surprises me it made it past QA. And beyond the mix issues, it's mastered quite badly (unlike the Legacy). So on the whole I find it far less listenable than the Legacy. I know I'm not going to change your mind, but I just want to represent that there is not consensus about which is the lesser of two evils here. I think it's worth having both though if you're a fan on the level Steve is, so it's good for him to check out the FTD and make up his own mind.
     
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  13. ClausH

    ClausH Senior Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    When I heard the FTD I couldn't believe how bad it sounded. The Legacy Edition is just as bad, imo but in a different way but at least it's complete.
     
  14. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road Thread Starter

    See See Rider
    One consistently fantastic thing about Elvis live shows was Ronnie Tutt's drums.... I find it hard to believe, as someone that loves an aggressive drummer, that I had never really known anything about this guy prior to this thread. Elvis could be farting into the mic and I would still enjoy Tutt's drums.
    Burton throws in a nice lead break, and the band is still tight and on the money. Although this is one of my less favourite Elvis tracks, merely due to the fact that it is the song most folks thing of when they think of Elvis live, Elvis is right on the money here and the song has a propulsion that is absolutely necessary for its success as an opener.

     
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  15. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road Thread Starter

    I Got A Woman/ Amen
    We get a nice little bit of crowd interplay at the start of this, and Elvis teasing the crowd with the "Well" opening.
    This track plays its part in keeping the tempo up, and Elvis seems to be having a bit of fun with it, and the song comes over very well.
    It is interesting that the first two songs are proper full length songs, as it often feels like we get a series of one minute songs edits in a lot of Elvis concerts and live albums.
    Of course we have the JD Sumner bass swoop/dip/whatever ... It is kind of interesting the first time you hear it, but it reaches the point of being somewhat comical after a while, and adds very little to the proceedings.

     
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  16. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road Thread Starter

    Love Me
    We get another version of this live, and to be honest, I don't think I like any of them musically. This is a song I have always loved the original version of, and live it always seems to be sung with virtual contempt, but at least sometimes there is a little humour involved.

     
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  17. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road Thread Starter

    Tryin' To get To You
    Here we have a slightly more countryfied, less urgent vocal in the opening verse. In the change Elvis pumps up the volume, and drives it home.
    This little bit of a dynamic change works well, and keeps the song fairly fresh. Sure it doesn't quite reach the heights of the sit down show from 68, but it serves its purpose well and the song doesn't lose anything, it just has some mild differences.

     
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  18. Daven23

    Daven23 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hyde Park NY USA
    I want to also echo what POB said. The FTD is the way to go. I at first wasn’t sure I needed the FTD but it fell into my lap cheap and honestly I loved the added reverb and really enhanced the concert. FTD is the way to go. I do have both the FTD and the Legacy because I wanted the Richmond show that was on the Legacy.
     
  19. Daven23

    Daven23 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hyde Park NY USA
    I think it’s worth it get both in any event so you can have the Richmond Show too and then one can decide which they like better
     
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  20. DirkM

    DirkM Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA, USA
    I actually sort of like Amen, particularly as a coda to I Got A Woman. It's the dive bomb routine that's a drag. At least it's relatively short here, whereas on later performances it seems to go on for several minutes...

    I'm not a fan of the arrangement of Trying To Get To You, but Elvis delivers the goods. Like Mark said, it's not as good as the sit-down versions (or the Sun master, for that matter), but it's still effective.
     
  21. DirkM

    DirkM Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA, USA
    Given the choice between the Legacy Edition and the FTD, I'd take the Legacy Edition any day. I don't think the mix is as bad as it's sometimes made out to be, and the mastering on the FTD makes it hard to listen to for more than a track or two at a time (as with the FTD soundtracks that were - I believe - released around the same time).

    I have to admit that I've only listened to the Richmond concert once or twice, and I wasn't very impressed. After reading some of the comments on this thread, I think I need to dig out my copy and give it another listen.
     
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  22. Sebastian

    Sebastian Forum Resident

    Strong vote here for the Legacy Edition. The mix is way superior to the FTD, even with the lower volume vocals. The FTD is a sonic mess. It's almost comical how bad it is.

    All IMHO, of course.
     
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  23. RSteven

    RSteven Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookings, Oregon
    Oh yeah, I was starting to realize this was the same issue we all discussed on the FTD thread a while back. I could not remember if it was this release or the MSG concert at first, but now I know. @PacificOceanBlue has always seemed to hear things like me, but I have also found you to be extremely helpful and knowledgeably on these sound issues as well. I have a feeling that I might end up feeling a lot like @ClausH, after I compare the two versions, as he seems to have great ears and expertise on these sound issues as well. I will let everybody know what I think, once I secure a copy, but as we all know these sound issues can be very subjective on occasion. They should not always be, but sometimes they are it would seem. At least we all agree about the superiority of the original mix, so that should be helpful to a lot of fans reading this fine thread.
     
  24. MRamble

    MRamble Forum Resident

    Yes to every word.

    Everything about this song fit him perfectly for that exact moment in his life. It will always be a favorite of mine.
     
  25. MRamble

    MRamble Forum Resident

    I've always enjoyed "Recorded Live In Memphis." Good energy and captured very well but each time I listen to it, I wish Jerry Scheff was still in the band.
     
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