Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, May 26, 2019.
Not nearly as bad as grown man snatching a baseball hit into the stands from a kid.
They're not doing their job as custodians of Elvis history by pretending that an important part of that history didn't happen and by letting this historical document languish as a bootleg on Youtube. They don't have to sell it at retail if they don't want to turn it into a market-oriented product; they could just put it out there as a download on their web site or as something you can only order from them.
The Elvis in Concert CD is still in print, and FTD has released concerts from 1977, so they're basically hypocrits about it : they're fine with the audio but not the video, when the audio comes from the man in the video.
I recall that in the 1968 television special that some woman was putting a Kleenex that he wiped his face with in her purse as a holy relic or something and Elvis made a comment "never ceases to amaze me baby!". I asked my aunt several times about seeing him back in the 1950s. She saw him back around 1955 before he was nationally known. She told me that she couldn't really hear anything much except other girls screaming and crowding the stage front. His whole live performing career must have always seemed that way to him.
"laugh on cue Charlie " could be very annoying, especially during the 68 special!
I dont think he never needed to be on stage really in the 70s ! i mean elvis was quite capable of picking up his own glass of gatorade and his sharp harmonies certainly were not needed !!
however i would risk saying that Elvis - despite his various flaws, seemed to have a great sense of loyalty and i believe he never ever forgot that when he boarded that ship to Germany he was a totally heartbroken lost mess and it was charlie that got him through that anyway he could - and probably made that initial few weeks bearable !
what do i know? i could be totally wrong but this is how i have always assumed it !
Again, why make it commercially available, even as an exclusive website download? Sorry, but your point of view sounds more like a fan who wants EIC commercially released and is trying to find a justification for it, rather than some who is concerned with the historical record. The entire "history" argument is hollow because no one, including EPE, denies the existence of EIC. Its place in history is well solidified.
Whether it was an "important" part of Elvis' history is another argument altogether; and it certainly was not important from an artistic and creative perspective, if anything it was stark audio/visual evidence of Elvis' artistic and personal demise. From the standpoint that it ushered in decades of ridicule, yes EIC played a significant role. But is that something worth presenting to the public with a commercial release? Of course not. Again, its place in the Elvis story remains, but just because it occurred, doesn't mean it needs to be part of a sanctioned commercial release. If people are curious to want to see it or footage from it, not only are a couple of performances commercially available via This Is Elvis and The Great Performances, but it is widely available on youtube.
Eric Clapton produced the Rolling Hotel documentary in late-70's; and it is a very problematic piece, especially with respect to how it portrays him on a personal level. Yes, it is part of his history, which no one denies, but again, that doesn't mean it deserves a commercial release simply because it happened and tapes are in the vaults. History and commercial releases do not go hand in hand.
I see all those 77 videos that are being posted here but I can't watch none of them.
It's not embarrassment, it's pain. So painful to watch, even 40+ years later.
I'm going back to 1968 dvds and I'll be back on the forum in a couple of days when the EIC discussion is over,
Totally understand mate
Fine, then don't make it a commercial release. Just improve its audio and video quality and put it out there for Elvis scholars. It is mind-boggling to me that this sort of obscurantism exists where we have an important record of the last year in the life of a major historical figure, and some people basically wish it didn't exist. Our understanding of Elvis and his life would be much poorer if not for this footage.
Yeah, this is exactly the way I feel about it. Watching a guy I admired a ton as a great singer, entertainer and humanitarian, actually fall apart from his addiction on stage is not embarrassing to me at all as I have watched more than a few friends or relatives struggle with addiction over the years. It is just extremely painful and heart wrenching. As much as I admired the music he made, I still remember that Elvis was a human being, a father, a son and a friend to many. Our loss is very insignificant compared to what his loved ones lost when he passed away. I have no reason to watch any videos of Elvis In Concert, but I can still enjoy some of the music he made in those last concerts.
I understand your perspective, but I don't think watching and listening to a man dying really does anything to advance his musical legacy.
The real problem with this particular release isn't the music, Elvis being out of condition, or anything like that.
To me the problem is that this guy has an amazing catalog of music, and to put any focus on this is really just sabotaging people from listening to that catalog. The Tall Poppy Syndrome, The Jealous Wannabe Musician Syndrome etc etc lead to things like this becoming a focus of hatred and ridicule, rather than what they should be, a focus on the fragile nature of humans, and the devastating effects of the combination of depression and drugs, resulting in death.
Parker and Rca, in my opinion put this out to rake in some money on the back of a tragic death, that they were partially responsible for. That decision basically tore Elvis out of the conversation of musical legacy, and now we have a scenario that most people have a very negative opinion on one the the greatest singers and performers of the twentieth century, based on fat jokes, pill jokes and dying on the toilet jokes, and it all comes back to a very bad decision to release this very quickly after his death for the foreseen monetary reward.....
As I said earlier in this part of the discussion, if it was just being considered for release now, and had never seen the light of day, then perhaps to fill in some blanks for fanatics it would be a good idea to release it now..... but it is certainly not an unknown quantity these days, and I don't see that further humiliation is necessary.
Obviously everyone will have their own opinions on this.
Elvis's vocal is just terrible sounding on the medley here. He sounds like he is singing underwater and cannot really seem to catch his breath on it. There is no saving this one for me.
Wow, Elvis sounds like a completely different singer from the one on the medley. Did Elvis ever sing You Gave Me A Mountain poorly, if so I have never heard it? Ronnie Tutt is tearing it up on the drum kick and Tony Brown is doing his best Glen Hardin imitation on the piano. I just love Burton's great electric guitar fills as well. Oh Man, Elvis sounds great to me on this one. Night and day from his vocal on the medley.
Oh yeah, I was expecting another lifeless and boring cut of a great 50's song, and although Elvis's vocal is nothing to write home about, he is obviously having a good time with it to some degree. I think pianist Tony Brown provided much of the energy with his Jerry Lee Lewis like licks on the keyboard, and the stripper ending by Elvis and the band is almost always a hoot to hear.
I agree with your points. If an official video was ever released, would I buy it? Probably yes. Not because I really want the footage. It would be as an oddity and to have a "complete" collection. While I like the audio of the album, the video only has a connection to me because I watched it back in the day. If it's never released, it doesn't bother me. I never cared for the keychains, hats, posters, and other junk associated with Elvis once I was an adult (I had some of it as kid but almost always it was a gift). All I cared for were the recordings, live performance videos, only four movies that I find worthwhile, and some books that have been mentioned here. When I picture Elvis performing visually, it's either in 1968 or TTWII for me. He was at his peak as an entertainer and that's how he should be remembered.
Improving the audio and video are the desires of collectors, not scholars, and l see that as the real motivation for seeing it officially released in some capacity. The footage is out there for scholars to study... It's not being suppressed. One need not have it remastered or mixed into surround sound to study its historical effect. As to how much it contributes to our understanding of Elvis' life, I'd say watching the clip of Are You Lonesome Tonight tells you all you need to know historically. There is little additional to be gleaned historically from seeing the entire performance.
Throughout his life Elvis was managed by a person who put money above all else and was willing to make Elvis look bad in a variety of ways in order to make the most immediate cash he could. The fact that those in charge now are trying to curate his legacy and avoid emphasizing the low points of his life seems a good thing to me. How Elvis died is a sad fact, but that doesn't mean we need to wallow in it.
No doubt about it. Anyone with any once of compassion for Elvis likely isn't longing to watch that footage. The embarrassment and pain in his eyes (when they are open) and his medicated state is indeed very sad to see.
Quoted for emphasis. Perfectly stated.
I just want to thank everyone who has made this thread so edifying and entertaining. When it comes to 70s Elvis, I am pretty limited, just an Essential Masters guy. Reading such detailed and informative and intelligent discussion of these years, which are so often just caricatured, has been a great pleasure for me. The stuff that makes SHF worthwhile,
I totally agree, this has been a great thread with intelligent, adult discussion. I've gone on a few Elvis forums which I'm sure most of you are familiar with (For Elvis CD Collectors, anyone?) but the discussion is often childlike ,and it's hard not to question the combined intellect of Elvis fans if you spend any time on there. This has been really great.
I barely post on the For Elvis Collectors forum but I visit daily. But there is a lot of negativity posted, especially when it comes to post-'72 Elvis. So reading the posts here is like a breath of fresh air
I left there because of a certain Dr. He has this uncanny ability to refuse to admit he can ever be wrong. If the proof cannot be found on the internet, then it didn't happen. I think he should change his name to Mr Googlehead.
There's some truth in your assumption.
Have you read Careless Love: The Unmaking of Elvis Presley by Peter Guralnick?
(it's the follow-up to Last Train To Memphis a masterful biography that ends in
1958). He deals intelligently with the draft and Elvis' experience in the army. The
biography is an epic tragedy. It will make you cry.
I understand why Elvis’s estate and Sony/RCA don’t want the ‘77 live material on the shelf at Wal-Mart, but it should be available through FTD. I agree 100% with your point that Elvis is a major historical figure, and it’s pointless to pretend that the end of his life didn’t happen the way it did. Keep the ‘77 Special off of Netflix and other streaming services if you want: that’s fine, and understandable, but give the serious fans an option to buy it and view it as a legal product in the best possible quality.
If EIC was footage of Elvis throwing up on stage, getting into a drunken fistfight with JD Sumner and pontificating for 15 minutes about the evils of race-mixing, I could understand the Estate not releasing it. And if you listen to some fans when they describe it, you'd think that is what the special is like. But what it is ACTUALLY like is an overweight Elvis delivering a perfunctory concert in 1977, the year of his death. Nothing more, but nothing less. If he'd died in, say, 1980 instead of a few months later, nobody -- not even the Estate -- would have a problem with releasing it, at least in some form for the fans.
Yes, even if Elvis had died in 1980 instead of 1977, the estate would still not sanction a commercial release of EIC. Again, the faction of fans that want this thing out there for public consumption are collectors that want this atrocious project in perfect picture quality remastered in 5.1 surround sound for their own collections, or that might have a morbid obsession about it. It is about collecting product, not about the viability of the project as a commercial retail item or its place in the historical record. LMP understandably sees the footage as a devastating reminder of what happened to her father; of course she does not want to see it issued in any format, to see him ridiculed, to see his legacy take a hit. Most people that love their parents, even ones that are historical figures, would approach it the same way.
Again, no one, including EPE, has pretended that Elvis' life did not end the way that it did. It is odd that a faction of fans repeat that false mantra time and time again simply because EPE refuses to commercially release EIC. Historians, scholars and interested parties can still view the footage (some of it officially through This Is Elvis and The Great Performances); presenting it in the best ever quality is pointless and unnecessary. And the final sentence in the above post sums it up -- this is solely about a handful of fans that want this horrible project released in the best-ever picture and sound quality for their own collections, and as a hollow back-up to justify their position, they fall back on the old rhetorical arguments that EPE is trying to erase history, that the concerts are historical (yes, they are, but that doesn't mean they deserve a commercial release), etc., etc., etc.
There is more virtue in Elvis In Concert than critics are willing to admit.
His acute musicality, fine voice, inner decency and sincerity, his giving of
himself, and his rapport with the audience are fully in evidence. Yes he is
ailing but his ailing is NOT THE ONLY THING in front of you. Try to see
the rest of it.
Some of you exaggerate and overstate the problems.
With all due respect, I have never seen such a misguided and unfounded assessment of Elvis In Concert. "Acute Musicality?" "Fine Voice?" Talk about an exaggeration. I understand the need to support Elvis, that some fans to try to find the good in everything he did, but Elvis' final chapter of live work from the summer was a display of an artist in full deterioration. It is very difficult watching Elvis struggle through that taping.
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