Empire Strikes Back is visually beautiful

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by matthew5, Feb 28, 2011.

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  1. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    What amazes me is, just how good it ended up being. Usually, once something is successful the first time, people start throwing money at it, and the people who are talented at nothing else but spending money come out of the woodwork. This film is essentially the exception that proves the rule.

    (Fortunately, market-forces prevailed, and the cokeheads, dealmakers and hangers-on were able to bring down the next film to the level of diminishing expectations. :nyah:)
     
  2. ESB's Director Irvin Kershner, who recently passed away, was IMO the creative force that kept it from George Lucas' penchant for cornball dialogue and story lines. That and the fact that the phenomenal writing of Lawrence Kasdan for the script kept it from falling into the creative pitholes the other Star Wars episodes stumbled into and couldn't pull themselves out of!
     
  3. Paradiddle

    Paradiddle Forum Resident

    Would you mind letting me know how much you paid for it? I'm finding several used copies on eBay and Amazon but prices are all over the place. Just want to know what I should expect to pay for a clean, quiet copy.
     
  4. Spirit Crusher

    Spirit Crusher Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mad Town, WI
    Timely thread - I just watched bits of it with my 4-year-old daughter. I hadn't watched it in many years.
    I insist on watching the pre-SEs so the bonus disc from 2006 it was, zoomed to 16:10 on my Dell monitor with VLC.
    Thoughts:
    After more than a decade of intensified continuity this movie was a breath of fresh air. All I can think of is: elegant. Many deep focus shots - Han and Chewie on top of the Falcon in the Hoth hangar, talking to somebody below, all in the same shot.
    No modern over-the-shoulder shot-reverse-shot bulls#$t. Every #$%^ing movie in this country nowadays is shot and edited in the same boring television style. Again, Bordwell:
    http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/?p=382
    But this was not, as it was before television probably sank its fangs into film style. Actors move around a space in dialog.
    Absolutely amazing how lifelike Yoda was.
    I wonder what the shots-per-second ratio is compared to Sith and modern action movies in general.

    Another thought I had is how amazing this movie was back in 1980. There were no movies at this level of technical expertise, adventure, etc. Sadly, spectacle is run-of-the-mill these days and this movie is just more pop culture fodder for the pre-teen demographic.
     
    Solaris and IronWaffle like this.
  5. C6H12O6

    C6H12O6 Senior Member

    Location:
    My lab
    OTM. Another reason why ESB is the only Star Wars film I can stand seeing again, start-to-finish.
     
  6. SgtPepper1983

    SgtPepper1983 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Not when it's well done. Look at Spielberg's War Of The Worlds for instance. Also the T-Rex flipping the car over in Jurassic Park. The car was completely animated.

    But in general you're right: about 90 % of cgi animation looks like crap.
     
  7. Javimulder

    Javimulder New Member

    Location:
    Spain
    Yes, I was making a generalization and I absolutely agree with your examples of good CGI... :thumbsup:
     
  8. ribors

    ribors Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    I think Gary Kurtz was another key factor in Lucas' early success (from American Graffiti through Empire) and when Lucas parted ways with him, SW was never the same. Check out the book Empire Building by Garry Jenkins.
     
  9. F_C_FRANKLIN

    F_C_FRANKLIN Forum Resident

  10. drukgs

    drukgs Forum Resident

    Location:
    jacksonville, Fl
    I paid 8 bucks but its the only copy I've seen so i couldn't tell you the going rate. I'd check used shops if they're around. I've found tons of great soundtracks in pristine condition I'm guessing because people liked the flick and bought the soundtrack but never listened to it more than a couple of times. As has been mentioned this is one of John Williams crowning achievements and if you find a nice copy in your price range I'd go for it.
     
  11. hi_watt

    hi_watt The Road Warrior

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Wow. A big time influence on the early film's nuances. Thanks for the link! Marcia should get more credit from the fans. No wonder I didn't really care for the carcasses of the new trilogy. Easy to sell Taco Bell cups I guess (I know, because I bought one).
     
  12. Unknown Delight

    Unknown Delight Alan Myers Jazz Heads Unite!

    -
    I watched this film again last night, because this thread had reminded me of what a great movie it is.

    Observations i enjoy seeing over and over...

    The dialog between Han and Leia, and the interplay of those two characters with each other though the course of the film. I adore Han Solo anyway, but i found many of his comments to be downright hilarious.

    The lighting and set 'look and feel' in the carbon freezing chamber. Awesomeness.

    One word - YODA. How anyone can think ( Lucas included) that the CGI version of this character is better then the original hand puppet version must be nuts. Yoda is completely believable here...and i love Frank Oz's little embelishments. I am a puppeteer also ( see link below..) and can totally get into what he is doing. Fantastic performance...probably THE best from a peice of foam latex ever.

    The look of the ships. For some reason, i think they looked the best in 'Empire'. Not sure why..maybe improvements in lighting the models..etc....but they all look fantastic.

    John Williams score, and his themes. Incredible pacing..and some seriously amazing peices. The end credits composition is a nice overview of the brillance for the ears in the entire film.

    The Imperial Walkers kick ***. Am i not alone in completely loving that entire sequence, from setup to final? This would be amazing to see on the big screen again.

    Speaking of such, was'nt there some talk recently about Lucas re-releasing the 'first three' Star Wars films back into theatres this year? It would not be the 'originals' ..but the Special Edition versions with the 'enhanced' effects added. Is this still on?

    I would totally pay to see 'Empire' in any form on a movie screen again.
     
  13. Lucasfilm has already announced tentative plans to re-release the entire SW saga in commercial theaters in digital 3D...the reconfiguring of the hi-resolution video files has been going on for a year or so already, partly as a result of Disney's Star Tours ride being reconfigured for 3D at Disneyland. THAT ride will be reopening in another couple months for the peak summer season!:wave:
     
  14. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    Yes Phantom Menace 3D comes out in Feb 2012 so you now experience actually being in a truly dreadful movie.
     
  15. Spirit Crusher

    Spirit Crusher Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mad Town, WI
    :agree:
     
  16. ribors

    ribors Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Thanks for the link - great article and great site. Need to put this book on my wish list.
     
  17. Marcia Lucas and Gary Kurtz are really the unsung heroes of the Original Trilogy Episodes...they helped George keep him from derailing his own creation with an overabundance of treacle and cornball in Episodes 5 and 6 with the help of Irvin Kershner, Lawrence Kasdan and "Jedi" director Richard Marquand.:cheers:
     
  18. Unknown Delight

    Unknown Delight Alan Myers Jazz Heads Unite!


    Egad.....Jar Jar Binks in 3D ???

    I think the only two segments worth seeing in 3D will be :

    Podrace sequence
    Final lightbsaber battle with Darth Maul

    Oh...and Watto in 3D. He rules. The ONLY thing i really liked about Ep 1.

    Bring on 'Empire' in 3D. The Hoth battle and Asteroid Sequence will be AMAZING!!!!

    Thanks for confirming the films being re-released.

    :wave:

    So getting back to 'ESB'...

    Other things i love in this film -

    The Taun-Tauns. Always thought they were a cool concept, having the characters ride them. In the original version of the film i have on VHS ( pre 'tampering'..) the original stop-motion is present. I love seeing the original animation of them, even though a couple of times you can really see it is a bit off. Interesting how other effects in this same film have not seemed to have aged a day, but the Taun Taun animation did in just a couple of cases.

    The Wampa. I really REALLY wish he had more screen time in the original cut. I have yet to have seen the updated version with the added CGI scenes, so i can only speak from seeing the original many times. It was disspointing not being able to fully see the cool creature, but i can understand wanting to keep him somewhat hidden. He is still a nice plus.

    Cloud City at dusk. Beautiful! I really like the look of the city in the scenes where Luke is rescued by his friends in the Falcon. All the tiny lights bring the scene to life.
     
  19. Solaris

    Solaris a bullet in flight

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    I watched ESB over the weekend and it's just as enjoyable as when I watched it a few years ago. I watched the special edition because it just looks so damn good, but the extra footage was distracting and unnecessary. Didn't need to see more of the Wampa, didn't need to see the Falcon or a cloud car fly through Cloud City, didn't need to see all those added windows on Cloud City either.

    "Elegant," as someone mentioned above, is a very good word to describe this movie. I've long said that great works of art, whether they're books or movies or pieces of music, are shot through with a sense of "grace" that makes them seem effortless. In that regard, I'd say The Empire Strikes Back is certainly graceful.

    As a photographer I always watch the lighting in movies along with everything else, and there are some stunning set ups here. The scene where Han and Leia kiss in the Falcon, many shots of Yoda (a piece of foam on a soundstage) looking completely genuine and alive, the scenes on Cloud City, the carbon freezing chamber, the various sets for Luke and Vader's duel -- these are all so beautifully shot you could take stills from each scene and frame them on the wall.

    Looking back at the Oscars for 1980, I see that the winner for cinematography was Tess, with NO nomination for ESB. However, The Blue Lagoon WAS nominated! ESB was nominated but lost for best score and best art direction, and won only best sound. Oh and it got a special achievement award for special effects.
     
  20. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Apart from all that we love about this movie, am I the only one who feels the timelines of the "different plots" (Han & Leia, Luke on Daghoba) do not really fit together. One would assume that Luke's training must have lastet several month at least, while it seems that between the escape from Hoth and the time of Han's betrayal on Bespin only a few days, mostly weeks have passed.

    Or do I have a wrong impression?
     
  21. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    No I think you are right. I think as you say the whole time frame of the movie seems odd. I always felt the film overall is a bit disjointed and clunky in terms of whats put together as a movie whole. However, its just those sequences are so good.

    Like three totally different Saville row suits stitched together. Looks odd but you cant fault the quality.

    Its a bizarre film really. You wont get anything like it made today.
     
  22. mbrennem

    mbrennem Active Member

    It actually does take a long time for Han and Leia to get to Bespin, but for whatever reason they don't acknowledge it in the movie. Because they have no hyperdrive, going between systems is a long haul. I think they could have used a short scene in there somewhere to explain the passage of time. I suspect they thought about it but couldn't come up with anything great, and since most of the audience wouldn't notice anyway, they just left it out.
     
  23. Spirit Crusher

    Spirit Crusher Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mad Town, WI
    Right - I've seen the movie 1000 times and never cared one bit.
     
  24. Solaris

    Solaris a bullet in flight

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    Same here. Somehow everything works anyway.
     
  25. JoelDF

    JoelDF Senior Member

    Location:
    Prairieville, LA
    Watch it though. I have one of the earliest RSO pressings of the double LP (probably a first pressing since I got it so quickly upon it's release), and all four sides are slightly off-center. A bit distracting, especially during the long sustained note passages.

    I played the heck out of it anyway.
     
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