"Enemies of Classical Music".

I found this posted by "edta" in the music forum at the Asylum and wanted to bring it here.
I'm increasingly disturbed at the steady decline of "classical" music in our society.
This list is a very interesting read, but there are countless factors involved.

Dan C

http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/enemies.htm

 

Well, I'll give this fellow props for one thing: no stones unturned, no one spared, no quarter given. He's really got it bad, I'd say...and while I agree with many of his points, he conveniently ignores a sad truth: most people have never cared for classical music--as a commercial art form. More to the point, the majors have spent most of their existence actually subsidizing classical music, by selling a lot of everything else. Just as one mega-hit album will allow a label to take a chance and sign other acts, so the popular music division has kept classical music afloat. Truth is, it sells the least of any style of music short of obscure 'world' titles. And to expect ratings-driven television and radio to support classical music is silly; they can't and won't, not when the money's in rap, hip-hop, pop and rock. Why should they? If you're in business to make a profit, it's a good idea to sell things that might make you a profit, and classical music isn't one of them.
Hey, I felt kinda wistful when NYC's WQXR turned into Disney kiddie pop/rock; that was a great station. NPR has to go after funding where it can; classical music doesn't cough up much donors, hence its scarcity even on PBS. Be nice is the Three Tenors and Andrea Bocelli could keep public television afloat on their own, but they can't.

Maybe this guy should find some classical lovers with deep pockets and start, say, a Classical cable channel or something. They play classical music on satellite, so what the hell, try TV or mainstream radio. Bitching won't change anything, in and of itself. Do like his style and bad 'tude, though....

ED

 

People may like classical, but few actually buy it. I think there are many reasons classical is just not popular and it has more to do with socialogical reasons than anything else.

 

That's a fun read. I especially like multi-millionaire John Ashcroft's anti-elitist rhetoric.

Of course the great irony is that Ashcroft gleefully uses his taxpayer-funded job to inflict his own wretched music on the American people:

http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2002/02/25/ashcroft.sings.wbtv.med.html

Ryan

 

I thought the attack on Loren Michaels and SNL was a bit off the mark, but I understand the point. There seems to be no one willing to give classical music any exposure. And how do people learn to appreciate art if they don't understand it or hear it?

It starts in childhood. Once kids were taught musical history and background. If they're exposed to it, play it and study it, they'll "get" it. Sure, most wouldn't keep listening to it as they got older, but a lot did. Now I can't find a SINGLE person in my office who knows snot about any sort of classical music. Most would say they "hate" it.

I'm only in my early 30's and I'm shocked at how irrelevant classical has become to our society since I was growing up.

And for NPR, they have a RESPONSIBILITY to bring art, including classical and jazz, to listeners. Know what brings in the most money these days? News and talk. When did it become NPR's mission to give us talk over art?

Dan C

 

I'm not sure about the reasons, but while people will listen to the music if it's offered, they don't go out of their way to buy it, despite all the thousands of titles out there. The lack of marquee names these days isn't helping--no Bernsteins, Mehtas, Sills...and even the big names are getting long in the tooth. And because there are so many titles--and so little shelf space for them--a lot of things have to be specially ordered or you run into them by sheer luck. Also, what version of a recording do you buy? There are dozens of versions of HOLST: THE PLANETS or RAVEL: BOLERO.

I suspect the dark truth is simply that the other genres have smothered classical and pushed it to the margins. Jazz still has a dedicated, savvy audience. Note that in this forum rock and jazz are the main musical topics; even the pop singers are usually jazz-tinged. Occasionally somebody will bring up a folk singer and of course oldies will always get a lot of bandwidth, but classical just doesn't pique interest anymore. The majors keep plugging along but even when a guy like Bocelli and maybe a Charlotte Church become personalities, nobody thinks of them as being 'classical artists' even if, by definition, there was a time when that's just what they'd be considered.

ED

 

Dedicated and savvy maybe, but large definitely not. Commercially Jazz is just as marginalized as Classical with contemporary releases selling much less than reissues or in the case of classical new recordings of warhorses. I can't recall when but the Sunday New York Times ran an article on this within the last few months. Just because jazz gets a lot of commentary in this forum doesn't mean it's popular, and as we forum members know in the ocean of recorded music we aren't a big school of fish.

 

A few weeks back, 60 Minutes did a segment on the dumbing down of American male culture, on how the prevailing concept of masculinity regards the intellect as 'unmasculine'; resulting in ever lowering standards of how smart men are allowed to be, with the result that advanced placement courses in high schools are almost entirely female now, and colleges actively practice affirmative action for males, else college populations would be 70-80% female. American males are the first species in evolutionary history to ever purposefully make themselves stupid.

Classical music is produced by advanced upper brain function, as well as an adult attention span, and you generally have to have some of that to appreciate it. My father, in college in the 40's, was a math genius and played varsity sports too - and had a considerable appreciation for classical. So things have not always been as they are now.

I have a couple of hundred classical cd's, and dearly wish they'd been put on disc by Steve Hoffman. I just finished Ray Manzarek's book, and he clearly feels classical is essential.

 

I dob't buy this! Are you trying to tell us that you have to be intelligent to appreciate classical music? It smacks of snobbery to me.

 

Fastworker's post is very interesting but I was afraid of this kind of reaction. Grant, I'm certainly NO genius and I absolutely love classical. It does take a bit of "training" to learn to appreciate, however. I was exposed to it from an early age and years later I decided to explore it with vigor.

I think a good live classical experience will turn a music fan starting with a passing interest in classical into a true believer and fan.

Sadly, most kids and adults either don't take the time or simply don't give a rat's ass.

Dan C

 

In a way, I think this argument works. Too many people think of classical as "snob" or "elitist" so they don't bother. There might be a connection of men trying to dumb down. Don't let your football buddies know you like opera!!!
Dan C

 

I'm saying if you adopt an agressive sneering towards intelligence, you're not likely to appreciate classical. It's part of our strange culture wars, our national and political landscape. Why we have to import the majority of our tech work force from Asia, etc.

 

I think there's some truth to the "intellectual" argument about some types of classical music, but to me "intellectual" doesn't mean book smart as much as music smart. I have less than 100 Classical CDs in a collection of around 5000 CDs overall, with a similar ratio to the LPs in my collection. I like Tchaikovsky, Holst and Wagner, Chopin and Copeland, don't love Bach and pretty much hate Mozart. I can't read music, don't understand much about chords and notes, but know what I like and prefer a melody overall. If I had "music knowledge", I might appreciate Mozart more, but as it is, his music meanders, lacks a cohesive melody and is basically boring to me. Similarly, with Jazz, I'll take a melodic piece everytime, so, while I have all the Wynton Marsalis jazz CDs, I much prefer his Hot House Flowers over Black Codes from the Underground.

There's a time for everything, but I don't particularly care to work for appreciation of my music. What is called Classical music is really most of the popular music prior to the 20th Century, and the classification consumes a variety of different genres. So, Copeland and Mozart are both considered classical music even though the two composers don't appear to have much in common otherwise. Culturally, the music listening public over the last 50 years has been trained to consume a 3 minute music tidbit. The vast majority won't invest the time it takes to consume a concerto or symphony, so they give classical music a pass. As every generation rejects the old in favor of its own, I'm actually a little surprised that classical music has lasted as long as it has and hasn't been reduced to the dustbin of history by now. How many people do you know that spend much time listening to music from the 20s, 30s, 40s, even 50s? As the boomers die off, even most of the 60s music will fade from the memories of most music listeners. So, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that the stuff doesn't sell much anymore.

Finally, the thing that has always driven me crazy is the lack of a definitive version of a given classical piece. I know if I like the Beatles music, I go buy their CDs. If I want the 1812 Orchestra, I have hundreds of versions to choose from, some much better than others. Some choice is good, too much choice will drive people from a market. My two cents, anyway...

 

I don't really think of the "classical" music that survives today as the "popular" music of the past. Popular music was more like folk music or songs people could play themselves. "Classical" (and I agree that it's a generic term now) was/is something much more. It's an experience, like a sonic movie or play. And there were other markets for it, like church music (Bach) or music commissioned for social gatherings (Handel) etc.

You might be right about the wash of CDs, but then the classical fan might have several performances of one work. When I go into the average mall music store I NEVER bother with the classical section. It's always all "best of" comps or budget basics. Isn't that what the novice wants?

Classical was, of course, always meant to be performed live. Today's music is not. I love The Beatles and I realize, for the most part, that their music IS the recording, not the score.

Dan C

 

I don't think "intelligence" here means IQ as much as a curiosity about the world and a willingness to try new things and enjoy art forms that take a little work to unravel.

I see it as needing to *use* your mind to appreciate classical, not that your mind needs to be of an unusually high standard.

Ryan

 

Ahhhhh yes yes yes yes what an excellent observation. Let me just say first of all welcome to the group and thanks for your interesting comments so far, I hope you stay in the "fray" so to speak and comment as you can on all topics. Now on to attention span deficient disorder in regards to classical music or ADDCM..

Seriously it does take time and your attention to listen to a piece of music that could be 10, 20, 30 minutes long. Sometimes the payoff musical for a piece could be way at the end, but all that led up to it reinforces that payoff and you have to hear it all to enjoy it. Modern listeners have so many things working against them. Right from the begging that there isn't nearly the level of things like learning about music, which is usually no formal education or book's about classical music, music history, etc. to the way they don't really learn how to listen to music, which is being taken to a live performance and sitting and listening and being in once place for a set period of time experiencing the music. It's obvious it takes time to listen even if your going to listen for differences in recording or mastering quality, and we know that most people in our society don't listen enough for even that.

I think there are many other aspects aside from the attention span issue as to why classical simply doesn't have the audience it once did. Off the top of my head I can think of the following things: We live in a society where it is difficult just because of the lack of time people have to sit in once spot and pay attention and thusly listen to a piece of music for 15, 20, 30 min at a time. Music has also often become, a back round fixation in most homes, and classical is not the back round choice in these homes. Actually I would go so far as to say music has become back round fixture in most people's life in general. They don't spend the time they used to with it as they have many other distractions to occupy there free time. Many people spend much of there time in cars and you know how hard it is to find a classical radio station. Further most of the stock radio systems in vehicles, sound really bad with classical music. You have the fact you have many younger listeners so far detached from live music and that listening experience, that they interpret music as a super small and portable mp3 player with reduced sonic quality recordings of bands, that they can most importantly listen to in whatever small time frames they want in addition to other actives they are engaged in. You can't forget the excellent "anti-conditioning" we get to classical music. So often the bastardized classical pieces you hear in elevators, or Nordstrom, or on a phone line while holding starts to condition you to feel negative responses from just hearing classical music in general. As i stated earlier you can't overlook the fact that music in general in high-school and grade school level is almost non existent. Schools that might have been able to lite even a small spark, no longer teach general music classes, or music theory, or even really expose the minds to "band" class like they used to.

I really don't know what can be done to help classical music reach a larger and newer audience. I fortunately have been able to ease many of my friends into it by getting them to start with movie scores from movies they enjoy and then offering a recommendation of a piece that is similar in structure, tone, pacing, etc to what they like from a certain movie score. It also helps that many of them have home theaters and can turn on whatever surround sound mode and be more immersed in the experience. That is not to say I believe that multi-channel is going to save classical music, I don't think it will...

 

Having seen Bocelli live about 12 times, I can assure everyone he is, indeed, a Classical artist.
It didn't stop me from giving him The Beatles White Album and Nico-The Classic Years however
The conductor, Steven Mercurio, who also does many Operas as well as 'events' like The 3 Tenors played in a rock band when he was younger. I gave him a White Album too

 

One thing that I have observed is that the "irrelevance" of classical music in today's society is directly proportional to the deemphasis of arts education including band, orchestra, and choral programs in the public schools. In addition, the "instant music" machines (e.g. the cheap Yamaha and Casio keyboards) have made music an "instant gratification" sort of thing rather than something that takes some patience and skill to listen to and/or play.

 

Well, at least there's an acknowledgement that these are opinions, but they're also the most frequent ad hoc dismissals and prejudices that work against commercial penetration by the so-called classical, jazz, improvised, and contemporary music genres.

Regarding music education, those of you who have 5000 titles in their home libraries have obviously spent amazing amounts of time 'working' to cultivate an interest in some type of musical form. Second, most of us popular and rock music afficianados have spent countless hours collecting and discussing various performances of a piece like 'Voodoo Chile', so why not 'The Goldberg Variations'? Sure, there may be one that you prefer, but listening, discussing, and ultimately forming human relationships through the love of music seems like a good thing to me. On the other hand, 'definitivity' is not a bad thing. Consider the Steve Hoffman mastered 'Who's next', or Gould's Goldberg (ah, but which one?).

I'm proud of my credentials as a renegade 'intellectual', but I most prefer any music that speaks directly to my mind and body without having to think about what I'm listening to. I don't have any formal academic musical training either, and my musical loves range from Ayler to Bach to Babbitt to the Beatles, depending on the mood I'm in. And I know there's tons of stuff out there I've never heard of that I'd love hearing. So don't go crazy, just turn off your brain and open up your mind.
Season's Greetings.

 

I've finally seen an explanation for things like "The Man Show" and "Jackass." Thank you.

I actually think that American culture, in general, is dumbing down -- not just males. On the other hand, as I age I'm aware that it's the job of older people to bemoan what happened to "the good ole days," just as it is the job of teens to find things to do that irritate their parents. (I'm being only half facetious here.)

I'm in my early 40's and did have music education in school. I also took piano lessons as a young child with a teacher who worked solely with classical music. I didn't much like it then. I like it more now, but I'm also one of those consumers with 5,000 cd's with only a small percentage being "classical."

I do think there is something to be said of the argument that many people will not enjoy something that seems foreign to them. Rather than try out different music (or food, for another common example), many people just imagine that they will not like it so they don't approach it with an open mind. Quite honestly, though, I'm not particularly concerned about what music seems to be "in vogue" at any particular time. I'm actually much more concerned about the dumbing down of news in this country, where most news now consists of "infotainment," government propaganda, and stories about violence.

 

Sad but true, although jazz still sells a fraction of a percentage point better than classical. This might be on account of those pseudo jazz artists like Diana Krall, Norah Jones or Kenny G being thrown into the jazz sales mix.

Jazz has something else going for it with the masses - the Charlie the Tuna phenomenon where it's thought to be the music of people with good taste just as classical used to be. Now, I'm afraid, the average person regards those who listen to classical music as some kind of oddball.

 

And what would those socialogical (sic) reasons be?

 

I'm more interested in how he found out that classical buffs buy fewer recordings than fans of other musical idioms. I wasn't aware of that.

 

'

So, you ARE trying to say that only intelligent people appreciate classical music! Well, I hope i'm not thread-crapping here, but rock and blues music haters have been trying to pass this stuff off since the 50s and 60s.

Since classical music is a product of Europe, this could be interpreted as a bigoted idea. If a person does not like classical music, it does not have anything to do with his or her IQ!

For the record, I was also exposed to classical, as well as most all other types of music since infancy! I used to run into the house as soon as I heard it as a kid.

 

Part of a discussion not for this forum or perhaps this website...