Entry-level audiophile turntable- Rega or Orbit?

I would suggest that some people prefer some Rega turntables to both the SL-1200GR and SL-1200G shows why Rega are very confident in their turntables.

I'm not suggesting the latest Planar 2 achieves that, but it is a good sounding, well made and reliable turntable, that would satisfy many people - as would some of the other products mentioned.

Having sold multiple hundred Planar 2s and 3s in the eighties and nineties, the very vast majority of owners just buy records and enjoy their music.

As a dealer for 15 years in Rega's reliability and customer service was legendary.

What both amuses and bemuses me, is some of the retro turntables being recommended as alternatives to Rega and Orbit now, were part-exchanged against the Rega Planar 3 RB300 combination in the eighties! The "B" in the RB300 is for British: Rega designed and manufactured the RB300 and most considered it a large improvement over the Acos Lustre derived R200.

 

I appreciate what Miller does but he also has mags and website subscriptions to sell. That means a cozy relationship with manufacturers to keep the ball rolling and advertising dollars flowing.

Let's take the Evo for example. I am happy the sample Miller got obtained better results than factory spec. Miller's results show respectable numbers. HOWEVER, I'm willing to guess that Pro-Ject sent a hand-picked sample. Otherwise why do they show much sloppier tolerances for their factory specs?

From the PJ website:

Wow and flutter 33: ±0.17% 45: ±0.15%

Debut Carbon EVO – Pro-Ject Audio Systems

If ten or more random examples from a retail store could achieve the numbers Miller got (.05% combined), then PJ should update their specs. More likely ten or more random examples CANNOT achieve those numbers. Leaving worse factory specs up only hurts the brand/model in terms of potential sales, so it makes zero sense to do that unless there is a very good reason to do so.

 

So you gotta wonder, if, as you say, you can't hear any issues with the wow and flutter in the stock unit, why would anyone upgrade a speed controller?

 

People are entitled to prefer whatever they want.

Sure, in your opinion.

OK. Today many people buy plastic junk boxes and gimmick records and are satisfied with those. So what?

Great, but many people seem to be not so pleased with their customer service nowadays.

The Acos was one type of Japanese-made tonearm. There are many different types. I'm not as impressed with the Rega tonearms as some folks are. Certainly they are very popular and compared to many stand alone tonearms, relatively affordable. Rega making their own tonearms was a very smart business decision.

 

Because it improves the sound, can be adjusted to give exactly 33.33, gives you 33/45 at a touch of a button and some people like an extra box to show off!

Standard on the Planar 6, a Planar 3 can be upgraded for £236 in the UK.

 

This post, on it's own, sounds ok. But in another post, you DID say that you couldn't hear any issues with the stock unit. You can't have it both ways. Either you can hear issues with the stock unit or you can't.

 

Yes, it tells you that they think that specs don't tell the whole story.

Honestly it seems less like "not a fan" and more like "I have a vendetta." I understand you not appreciating their approach, but you seem so angry about it.

 

Sorry, I didn't say that, answered your reply to @AKA-Chuck G's post. Just gave my opinion based on hearing a NEO when added to a Planar 3 and in comparison to the TT-PSU

Unfortunately regardless of manufacturers, the perfect turntable has not been made and there is more information in a record groove than any manufacturer can retrieve. Regardless of a turntable ring belt, idler, or DD, less vibration going into the platter is obviously a very good thing.

 

Just in case the OP is still following the thread @merzbau, I agree with the sentiment that a vintage Japanese made direct drive model from the late 70s - early 80s represents the best bang for the buck. Technics is the most heralded brand, but all of the major Japanese companies (Sansui, Pioneer, Kenwood, JVC, Denon, etc.) made great tables during that time period. They had to, they were all competing against each other for market share.

Over the last four years, I have gone through more turntables than I can remember. Not because any of them were "bad", but I was constantly moving up the food chain as my budget allowed. Every table I used was in 100% working condition when I was using it and when I sold it. Many of these were tables I picked up at my local Goodwill for $14.99 - $29.99 (back before they started sending everything to their shopgoodwilll auction site). I learned how to install and align a cartridge, and eventually how to properly service a table using the readily available service manuals at Vinyl Engine.

I get that that's not for everyone, in which case, I definitely recommend the OP purchase a properly serviced vintage table from a dealer with a good reputation. If he can't find one in Philadelphia, a road trip to NJ or NYC would be worthwhile.

As availability varies from place to place, and changes daily, it's hard to make any specific recommendations. In addition to the name brands mentioned above, I also recommend looking for house brands from JC Penney (MCS) and Radio Shack (Realistic). Many of the MCS models were Technics (Panasonic) in JC Penney clothing. I actually owned four of those (all made by Panasonic) and they were every bit as well built, reliable and easy to service as their Technics counterparts. In some cases, the MCS models were even improved versions of the comparable Technics models. Google will help you find out which MCS models were made by Panasonic. Since they don't carry the Technics monicker, they often sell for much less than their Technics brethren. They can definitely represent a great bang for the buck on the used market.

Same for the Realistic models made by CEC. I had a Realstic LAB 440 that looked like it had been stored in someone's barn since 1985, but it cleaned up well, was easy to service, reliable and a great performer. Again a little googling will help determine which Realistic models were made by CEC. BTW, CEC also made turntables for Marantz (and many others). The Realistic models sell for WAY, WAY less than the CEC made Marantz models. Which, again, makes the "house brand" and great value.

I have noticed that prices have crept up in my local market over the last year. That makes it harder to get a score, but there are still many great used tables available in my local market for $300 - $400, and an occasional steal in the $150 - $250 range. For the record, I would easily take any of the vintage, Japanese turntables I owned over anything new for less than $800. Not just better specs (on paper), but better features, better build quality and better reliability. As long as the recommended servicing is done (and the table not physically abused), these things last forever.

 

When I dived back into vinyl seriously (12+ years ago), I got a modern entry level table.
Now after multiple upgrades and also many vintage tables, I can say that I truly wished I had started with vintage.
Modern entry level tables can's compare to a vintage Technics (and select Pioneer) DD tables.
Fewer features the better (auto size/speed select can be future problems).
In your price range, I'd also steer clear of the 1200's.
Many others. even with shipping, should fall below that point, even in pristine condition.

 

Many of these people are non-Rega owners who haven't heard a Rega in many a year.

One of the most vocal on this forum repeated this on another forum - some for whatever reason would appear to have an anti-Rega agenda.

From a personal point of view, from my retail days in the UK I heard a couple of manufacturers comment that some distributors watered down their business ethnics and some dealers don't want to rock the boat with the distributor. I've always believed that happy customers are the best asset a dealer can have and just possibly the dealer could have handled the situation better.

In the Internet age one, or two unusual problems can become a full on disaster very easily.

 

It just seems wild to me that people might be suggesting that a 40 year old JC Penny table is better than something that might have come from Rega, Orbit, Fluance or Music Hall. Apparently I have much to learn about good sound.

 

Would you be equally surprised if someone recommended a 40-year old Technics direct drive model? Because that's what many of the MCS turntables are. Much better drive motor and much better tonearm than a U-turn Orbit. The specs are also much better, but many who have inferior performing tables are quick to discount the validity and importance of such specs.

 

Especially as 35 years ago some of these turntables were part-exchanged against a Rega Planar 3!!

 

Were they? To the best of my knowledge, the Technics-made MCS turntables were not sold in the UK.

I'm not a Technics fanboy (neither of my current tables are Technics models), but I have owned and serviced several. The built quality, reliability and ease of service/maintenance is truly world class.

 

I mean a little yeah. I don't have a great deal of experience to a/b with here. But I do worry that people get a little "everything was better in the past" happy. I'm not trying to be aggressive, but I'm just expressing my bit of skepticism.

 

A friend of mine had one of the entry level PJs. Invited him over to hear my 40 year old Japanese deck and even he admitted it was better. Was he surprised? Yeah.

 

It's about the OP's price point. You need to spend (IMO) about three times that amount to rival the better vintage offerings.

 

Why? Technics has a well deserved reputation for making, quality, reliable direct drive turntables. It's why they are still in business and why their vintage tables are still in high demand.

Just compare the specs and tonearm design to a Uturn Orbit. I'm not bashing the Orbit (or Rega or Pro-ject), but the Technics technology was developed at a time when they had a HUGE R&D budget and tremendous economies of scale in their favor. To expect a small start-up (which Uturn was a few years ago), to be able to compete with that kind of R&D budget and manufacturing prowess is unrealistic.

 

I like my new 1200 better than either of my vintage decks and many other vintage decks I've heard and handled. Not in OPs budget though, so I recommended what I thought was the best bang for the buck w/r/t their original stated budget.

Now they can do whatever they like. Their money after all.

 

Not everything. There were plenty of crappy turntables made back in the 70s and 80s, too. But, that's not what anyone is recommending here.

 

I'm sure those are really good tables. I wouldn't bash them. But they were also made at at time when say 1MB of computer memory was like $2k. The technology that went into these older tables still exists, but hasn't filtered down to things that are now cheaper?

 

Patient is officially listed on my list of gurus and a helpful poster, but he is a well-known psycho. I picture him/you waking up in the middle of the night in a sweat, the wife asking "honey, what is it? " and Patient responding "It was horrible. IGD... everywhere". Or in camo in the Cambodian jungle, studying a picture of a Pro-Ject, "The horror...The horror..."

 

Technology with turntables has largely gone backwards. Nothing comparable to computers at all. Economies of scale is what you fail to understand.

 

I guess I'm a failure. Ah well.