Enzyme Cleaners specifically for LPs...Really?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by JBryan, Sep 15, 2011.

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  1. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    :edthumbs:
     
  2. blakep

    blakep Senior Member


    I use carbon fibre brushes for wet cleaning. I'll get them wet with just a bit of ultrapure water in a bowl before I start cleaning so they don't "soak up" either the AIVS 15 I use or the ultrapure that I use for rinsing.

    From there, I only use about 2 millilitres of the #15 and about 2 mills also of the ultrapure water per rinse stage (two rinses).

    Two millilitres is enough to form a solid "film" of fluid on the record with the #15 and have it soak for about 4-5 minutes. You do not want the fluid (especially the first stage cleaner) drying on the record in the soak time-it's important that it remain a solid film of fluid on the record. I clean in the basement, relative humidity is probably 40-50 per cent there so it's a YMMV kind of thing. Someone in a hotter, drier environment may need to use more fluid to prevent it from drying on the record before vacuuming.

    With the rinse, ultrapure has such high surface tension that you'll never really be able to "coat" the record with it (unless you are using a ton of it) so there's no point in trying to. Two millilitres is just enough to form a solid bead of water in front of the CF brush (which will not really soak up any fluid once wetted) and have the brush push the water down into the groove with a record rotating. I'll let that happen for anywhere from 15-45 seconds depending on how dirty the record is.

    2 millilitres is not a lot of fluid. Both the AIVS and the ultrapure will go a pretty long way using an amount like that but, as I said, CF brushes are not really wasteful in terms of soaking or sucking up the fluid.
     
    mikemoon likes this.
  3. mikemoon

    mikemoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    All good points. I've noticed that the enzyme cleaner tends to not fully cover the record unless you use quite bit. What I'm saying is there are spots that looked soaked and others not so much but they are still wet, just not covered - if that makes sense. I've started using a bit more to cover as well as possible.

    I used to leave the enzyme on for 15-20 minutes per side and I'm sure I've had a little dry in the past. I don't remember hearing any negative effects but I don't do this anymore just to be cautious - now it's 3-5 minutes a side with just a little rubbing in but not much. I used to rub it in with more force but the instruction say do not do this.

    I've never tried the #15. I just buy the 32 oz 3-step and do the 3-step for used vinyl and 2-step for new vinyl. It works out pretty well. I may try the #15 eventually. It's nice to learn from other people and add to our own method.
     
  4. tubbyslion

    tubbyslion Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York, USA
    I've been getting nice results with the #15. Like you mentioned, about 5 minutes. Followed by the AIVS super cleaner and two rinses of ultrapure. I've been using four separate Osage brushes, one for each stage. Sometimes I'll start with a Spin Clean cycle, as well. Any time I've switched in the regular step one enzyme cleaner, I haven't noticed a difference -- works great, too.
     
  5. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    I've used Nitty Gritty First rv before a wet clean. You don't rinse it if. I don't know if it's an enzyme cleaner but it does make a difference.
     
  6. audiolab1

    audiolab1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I curious what people look for when deciding on a cleaning solution? Do they take as gospel what a reviewer, who probably only used the product on a few records over a few weeks or months, writes?
    Or do they believe a new company, who has just arrived on the scene, when they say a solution is perfectly safe, without backing that up with some sort of rigorous science and testing?
    Personally I buy my solution, the Disc Doctor products, from a company owned and operated by an actual chemist.
     
  7. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    After I bought my Okki Nokki last year I decided to go with a one step cleaner because I buy a lot new vinyl or used vinyl from trusted sellers who advertise M or NM used records. I might pay more but it's worth it to me. I tried the MFSL, Disc Doctor, and AIVS one step cleaning solutions. I settled on the AIVS formula, so my decision was based on actual testing done by me.
     
    ellingtonic likes this.
  8. ellingtonic

    ellingtonic Forum Resident

    I've also tried most of the cleaners currently on the market and found the AIVS worked best for me.
     
  9. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    I tried out several, since it's not expensive to do so. Most record cleaning fluids are $20-30 for a good size bottle that will give you enough to get an idea of their performance. I based my initial purchasing decisions more on user feedback than professional reviews. For AIVS I bought an LP from a member here (tlmusic who I highly recommend) that cleaned it with AIVS and I was very pleased with the sound of that LP; it was quite transparent, with great transients and bass. I really like the Disc Doctor Miracle product as well. I alternate between the two, one is better for some LPs and vice versa.
     
  10. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I always look at reviews, professional and from users, before I buy something but unless you try it for yourself you can never tell how/if it will work.
    So far I have tried Disc Doctor, L'Art du Son, VPI, a bunch of homebrew solutions and MOFI Super Deep Cleaner and I have found MOFI to be the best.
     
  11. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Over the decades, I have tried many different cleaning solutions and techniques. Currently use the AVIS 15 and reagent water as a pre-clean using a VPI machine followed by ultrasonic cleaner (AD). The cleaning solutions I have tried over the years include VPI, home brew following various published recipes, Walker and AVIS, among others. My guiding principle is 'do no harm' but recognize that more damage has been done by kludgey tone arms and poor care of previous owners than by 'dirt' per se. However, I have brought many records back from the dead, and my current cleaning regime has vastly improved the signal to noise ratio of the surfaces on many old records that haven't been damaged.
     
  12. mikemoon

    mikemoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    In the beginning I used VPI Cleaner and it seemed fine but maybe not the best method. I have also used Disc Doctor solutions for a while and thought the results were pretty good. The only concern was that it created a lot of suds and maybe my rinse method wasn't as good as it is currently. I never notice anything negative about the sound though.

    I find that the AIVS 3-step method is the best for me for used vinyl and 2-step for new vinyl. In the end, some of it may be overkill, as a wet clean itself is pretty efficient as it is.
     
    ellingtonic likes this.
  13. ellingtonic

    ellingtonic Forum Resident

    Mike I use the 3 step for new and used. I try to get 3-5 minutes with the enzyme cleaner on new vinyl and 15-20 minutes for used stuff. My 16.5 is right by my workspace so it's pretty easy to clean while I work since I telecommute.
     
  14. mikemoon

    mikemoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Yes, it never hurts to do the 3-step on new lps - especially if time permits. As mentioned, I used to do 15-20 minutes on used lps but I thought I read it was too long. Regardless, as long as you soak them good and not too much drying occurs, it shouldn't hurt anything. As I'm sure you do, I try my best to buy pretty clean used vinyl. I don't really mess with garage sales or thrift stores, it is just too time consuming for me to save a few dollars.
     
  15. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    Now you're talking, working and cleaning LPs at the same time!
     
  16. ellingtonic

    ellingtonic Forum Resident

    Multitasking :)
     
  17. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    Of the finest kind. Well played, sir.
     
    ellingtonic likes this.
  18. Packgrog

    Packgrog Forum Resident

    I wonder whether an AIVS No 15 & ultra pure wash followed by ultrasonic would be more or less effective than using the ultrasonic as a second step with this as part of the tank dilution:
    http://www.sporicidin.com/products/mold-remediation/hospital-and-medical/all/sporicidin(r)-enzymatic-cleaner

    It outright states being safe for ultrasonic and for vinyl, and the agitation would come from cavitation rather than a brush. The downside of course being the need for a final rinse and vacuuming, leading to possible re-contamination.

    I just started trying a version of this process (with a well-diluted detergent additive instead of Sporicidin Enzymatic), after curious results with DIY ultrasonic with distilled water, 2oz-per-gallon 97% Isopropyl, and 2 drops Photo-Flo, which hadn't removed as many clicks as I'd hoped but drastically reduced the noise floor. Thoughts?
     
  19. Stupid question, but how do you "soak" a record?

    Are you just putting some fluid on the record, spreading the fluid around with a brush and then letting it sit?
     
  20. mikemoon

    mikemoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I've modified my method quite a few times. As far as a 3-step clean, I used to do the enzyme step on a soft white t-shirt, I'd rub the fluid in with a brush and let it sit for 5-20 minutes and then soak it up with a different soft white t-shirt. I'd do this for both sides and immediately followed with a cleaner and vacuum and then a rinse with a vacuum. I found this method effective but it took too long, even when I'd do 4 lps at the same time, some times as long as 1 hour for 4 used lps. Also, I got a little more paranoid about the fluid drying on the record. I never noticed it dry completely and it's very difficult to completely soak a record where the all grooves are completely covered in a significant layer of fluid.

    I've since changed and simplified this method. I now use a cut out clean plain white or plastic RTI innersleeve to cover the platter for used records and prevent it from getting dirty or contaminated from really dirty record. I do the enzyme step with this protecting the platter. I now keep the brush in contact for 1-minute and vacuum. I do this for both sides. I remove the sleeve on the platter and replace both the brush and tube for step 2 and the cleaner fluid, another 1 minute. For step 3, the rinse, I replace the brush only, another 1 minute full contact with the brush. I do scrub slightly to agitate the fluid at the beginning of each step.

    I only do the 3-step for used vinyl. I do the 1-step for all new vinyl now and do 1.5 minutes per side with the brush in full contact. I used both Disc Doctor and VPI brushes (3 step VPI, DD, DD) 1-step (VPI), I have a total of 5 brushes and 2 tubes.

    Used vinyl now takes me about 7-8 minutes a record and new vinyl about 4 minutes a record.

    I'm not quite OCD (it sounds like it though) but I think I've likely invested too much time and thought into cleaning records. I find the AI 3-Step and 1-Step to be very effective, maybe the best for one's money.

    I'm a proponent for doing a good job and cleaning vinyl but I think some of this stuff is becoming voodoo like. I'm sure the outsider would laugh at these rituals, they do get a bit insane. I think one is fine with the Spin Clean and a simple method.

    What is your method? Are you as crazy as me?
     
  21. Rockos

    Rockos Forum Resident

    Sounds like the special fruit cleaner they sell at the whole foods stores.
     
  22. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Does anyone let Disc doctor miracle record cleaner just sit on the recotrd and soak for a period of time before rinsing?

    I have tried letting it soak, but it appears to start drying and I get too paranoid, so usually after "scrubbing" I go straight into rinsing...
     
  23. Dentdog

    Dentdog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Jim at AI told me, #15
    Talked to Jim at AI and here's what I do.
    I will probably get shot down for this but it really works. Put the record/records on a glass and load on the #15, flip it and same for other side.I leave it on for 5-10 minutes. Wash it with the faucet, pretty warm and immediately do the same with Down with Dirty. 5-10 minutes and a little scrub with one of their brushes, faucet pretty warm. Immediately transfer to an ultrasonic bath I heisted from my office
    filled with steam distilled water, so no minerals. Rotate on a dowel for about 2-3 minutes to get all the faucet water off. 80 khz. Air dry.
    When I first play the record I preen with Last record cleaner on one of their brushes, just in case there's a little dust. If the record's good, the record is quiet.
    I'm cleaning a boatload of records that have been stored under a house for 20 years, some are really dirty. If they haven't been damaged by poor prior play they come out really quiet. #15 is expensive but Down with Dirty makes up about five gallons.
     
  24. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    Hey, where can this be purchased?
     
  25. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Lab grade is essentially medical grade or purified water. I get it from chemist shops the equivalent of drug stores in the US.
     
    Tommyboy likes this.
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