Ethernet cable vs WiFi for streamer

As usual

 

Sure
But this is not about dropouts but about noise.
USB is known to have this issue.
If you don’t isolate the USB receiver from your DAC (the chip doing the DA) you can measure all kind of pollution indeed at the analog out of the DAC.
The Well-Tempered Computer

In case of Ethernet, this is less likely as an ethernet port is galvanically isolated by design.
The standard requires this.
As in the end “digital” is analog used in a weird way, even galvanic isolation will not be 100%.
100% doesn’t exist in the analog world.
So one might improve this by using a medical grade isolater.
Review and Measurements of EMO EN-60KDS Ethernet Isolator

Obvious zero difference unless you provoke it.
This time by wrapping the AC lead of a solder iron around a CAT cable.
#13 indeed shows the result, a tiny 60 Hz peak measured at the analog out of the DAC.
Obvious pollution can ride on the Ethernet cable and enter the DAC and produces a measurable result.
However at -120 dBFS nothing to write home about.

 

You have got to stop thinking about problems that affect analogue, this is digital.

How would analogue noise on a USB cable manage to infiltrate the digital bitstream and then decode it into something different to the original?

 

From that link
"Conclusion:
The use of Ethernet isolators is for life safety and belts and suspenders at that. There is no reason to use them with computer audio or data for that matter"

 

I have no skin in this game because I don't stream audio (except for spotify) but to say Wifi SOUNDS better than a wired ethernet is utterly JUNK SCIENCE.

 

Sounds like he is referring to damage to the analog signal after it has been converted to analog. I kind of get that as my monster PC is terrible and playing back sound and video - crackles, mouse movement makes it worse, stutters. You clearly cannot mess with the digital signal - but after it has been converted and is in analog - it can likely pick up noise.

 

It would be a very cheap or faulty DAC that would allow noise on the input to 'leak' onto the audio output

 

I'd agree with that.

 

It doesn't alter the bits and I don't claim at all it does.
What the measurements demonstrate is that "noise" be it injected by the PC in the USB receiver or the soldering iron in case of ethernet, can be measured at the analog out of the DAC.
No, of course it doesn't change a single bit but it does raise the noise floor.
Once again, this has nothing to do with digital but all with the noise at the analog out of your DAC.
This is not about bits but SNR
Please observe all the measurements are at the analog out.

 

Agree, if you see some noise at -120 dBFS, there is nothing to worry about

 

DAC receives signal from Ethernet or USB on INPUT

DAC extracts bitstream from that signal using a very precise clock

DAC reconstructs original audio from bitstream and sends it to audio OUTPUT

How does noise or other interference get from INPUT to OUTPUT? That would be a really bad design fault.

 

DAC has to bring up the analog signal (amplify) to line level - power supply could induce noise - I'm not sure how an ethernet shielded cable would introduce noise. If designed properly it should be dead silent.

 

If the DAC power supply is causing noise on audio output, throw it away and get a thouroughly tested one

 

That isn't my point. Anyhow - jumping out of this thread.

 

Even though I have a pretty robust in-home wireless network, I chose to run Ethernet cable to my two streaming devices (Sony X800s) in my main and family room HTs.

Did it in any way shape or form affect the sound quality? Nope. Except that, very occasionally, when streaming multichannel DSF files (ripped from SACDs) to the unit in my family room, there were buffering issues. Those disappeared when I ran Ethernet cable to that room. Mind you, the Sony's owner's manual specifically says "The player may not play this file format on a Home Network server." so the buffering issue might be related much more to the Sony than the wireless network. I'm just happy that despite the cautionary message, streaming DSF works. The streamed tracks, whether by Ethernet or wireless, are sonically indistinguishable from tracks played directly from the SACDs from which they were ripped. (NB. This is an opinion based on my perception only. I have not performed any scientifically-rigorous testing to support this claim.)

Jeff

 

Thanks Jeff - a sensible post, I just jumped in to try to explain to OP that there should be no difference between Ethernet and WiFi

Unfortunately it has attracted posts that play right into the hands of the crooks selling ‘special audiophile USB cables’ and ‘special audiophile Ethernet cables” and now, heaven help us, ‘special audiophile switches’

For everybody's amusement: some hilarious quotes from ‘reviewers’

“I recently switched from cable (coax) to fiber for my Internet Service Provider (ISP) – and immediately noticed the differences in how my music streams sounded “

“Sweeping and romantic with a touch of bite. The most apparent difference here is the microdynamics and detail resolution. Instruments suddenly became more interesting and the music became more involving, at the same time more relaxed with an ease and flow which made the music more natural“ - about a digital switch !!!!

 

I moved my three Bluesound devices from wifi to powerline adapters. More stable. Still sounds great!!!

 

Glad to hear it. I have wondered if they work OK

 

Powerline Ethernet works great. My router is in my bedroom near my main computer, but my audio gear, TV, and HTPC are all in the living room. No way the apartment complex management would let me run cable. Using the Powerline adapters I'm wired in both rooms. The only tricky part was figuring out which power outlets in the two rooms were on the same circuit!

 

@rodentdog and @jkauff

Which models are you using?

 

TP-Link AV2000 for me.

 

Extollo 1500 for me.

 

yep, multichannel dsf rips can be a lot of data- my oppo's wifi adapter has trouble streaming them as well- too far from the router, not enough signal to do it.

 

heh I really wish everyone who posts about audiophile ethernet would do some reading on how studios use Dante. would probably blow some minds lol.

 

Dante is one of many IP based protocols for transferring digital audio
The studios we deal with have no use for it
It is useful for thousands and tens of thousands of concurrent IP digital audio connections, absolutely useless on a home network.