Ethernet Cables in for evaluation

Yes exactly and we have a guy saying he got better sound by adding a switch between the router and the streamer.

If we imagine there really is a difference in sound what is the most likely reason? Better waveforms, restructuring of data and more colorful electrons or a noise or grounding problem due to bad equipment?

 

I am glad that we have established that “Ethernet works perfectly until it doesn't, and that's the end of the story.” is an incorrect assertion.

I’ve also seen some people in this thread erroneously equate Ethernet with TCP/IP, it looks like we might need to start an educational thread on networking.

@Puma Cat sorry for what has happened to your thread.

 

Its not impossible for noise to affect hardware but this doesn't alter any data thanks to the TCP protocol. It's the transmission protocol that ensures data is delivered in tact and in order, not hardware. Just read about how Transmission Control Protocol works.

In terms of Ethernet cable design, they are twisted pair cables, the twists achieve a rejection of EMI even when unshielded (UTP). This is why hundreds of Ethernet cables can be packed tightly together in long data centre runs unaffected.

 

I don't disagree with anything in above text. TCP preserves the data and keeps retransmitting packages until everything is correct but as you also say it is not impossible for noise to affect hardware and that hardware could be the analogue output of the streamer.

 

The network is completely unrelated to the DAC circuit, and that's me out of this thread...
It's an echo chamber of nonsense with a basis akin to a flat-earthers conference.

 

I am not really following this. How can the dac communicate with the network without being connected to it?

 

Ahem, to the best of my knowledge, Roon isn’t using TCP/IP to deliver bits from the Core to the Endpoint. They use RAAT – Roon Advanced Audio Transport. Roon are not very clear about what that is (at least they weren’t last time I looked). But it is not entirely inconceivable that – like in USB audio – there is a real time component, and that data that don’t make it to the endpoint aren’t resent until they have arrived safely. Sending audio encoded as bits isn’t in all cases or points in the chain the same as sending data to your printer.

 

Good lord. Why would anyone do that with today's technology? Boggles the mind. Their theory is that throwing out a bit perfect data transmission method that works in really dirty electrical settings and replace it with something that is susceptible to outside stimulus is a good idea.
It's is no wonder that people don't want to be labeled an audiophile.

 

I don't think this is agreeable with many, because The Absolute Sound said Seagate has the best sounding hard drives

 

Ah yes, silly me! But if you really want those inky black notes then go SSD I hear! And then MLC over QLC chips...just more 'dynamic'.

 

Is this a serious question or are you just being deliberately difficult?

 

Are you sure RAAT is not at layer upon TCP/IP else it would not be possible to connect to Roon through an ordinary ethernet router or switch.

 

I was only responding to this.

"The network is completely unrelated to the DAC circuit,"

How can the dac communicate with the network if it is completely unrelated to the network?

 

Did you read what I wrote? I already answered your question in the exact post you quoted.

I'm done. I'm staying the **** out of the entire Audio Hardware forum from now on, this is insanity. There's not understanding something, and then there's being deliberately dense, and this thread has crossed that line with gusto.

 

It's called electrical isolation. Look it up, I'm tired of explaining this.

 

Now I have read it once again and I think we completely agree but I think you described it in a better way.

 

Roon absolutely uses TCP/IP, complete with error correction. RAAT would be comparable to something like DLNA, not a replacement for TCP/IP. More details here.

 

No, I'm not. I was just grasping for something that might point at an explanation for people more knowledgeable than me.

 

RAAT sits on top of TCP. It doesn't replace any aspect of it, nor does it bypass any of the error correction built into the protocol. It would be bonkers to try and replace and bypass TCP. That would break with network hardware (switches, NICs, etc) and require the devices be connected directly, with network support at both ends for the franken-protocol.

 

Stream your files over wifi then, simples.

 

Round and round we go! Bottom line.. A certified ethernet cable in working condition will make no difference in sound. Enough of this nonsense.

 

err...I meant to say IP
RAAT in fact used UDP instead of TCP at first.

 

Amazing. So they drop the error checking? For what gain?

 

Thinking back, when I first started using Roon I had constant drop outs. I shored up my infrastructure, and made the joke that Roon apparently requires a network spec'd for 4K video to handle CD quality audio.

But thinking back, I wonder if what actually fixed my problems was them correctly rewriting their stack. Using UDP in that scenario is inexcusably stupid.

 

They used to, no longer. The only role UDP plays in the modern world is video conferencing where a buffer would throw things off, but I'm not even sure if that's true anymore.