Ethically purchasing used compact discs: ?

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Cherrycherry, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. Grant

    Grant Now let that bass fall in! Oh yeah!

    Location:
    United States
    It would have to be tested in a court of law. As we see, much of the copyright act and the DMCA are worded vaguely. So, it's all up to interpretation. Each side will find parts of them that appear to support their argument. Of course, as a lawyer who claims specialize in copyright law, you would know this.
     
  2. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    A court would have to determine whoch of the following statements is true

    (A) Ripping copyrighted music from a CD is illegal, even if it is a backup copy for personal use by a person who retains ownership pf the CD, because section 117 does not apply to digital music.

    Or

    (B) Ripping copyrighted music from a CD is legal if it is a backup copy for personal use by a person who retains ownership of the CD, but retaining that copy after the CD is sold is illegal, because section 117 does not apply to digital music.

    There is no colorable legal argument that it is legal to rip a copy of copyrighted music from a CD and retain that copy after selling the CD.
     
  3. Grant

    Grant Now let that bass fall in! Oh yeah!

    Location:
    United States
    Ripping is not a legal term as far as I know.
     
  4. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Creating a digital copy is the legal term. You are acting dumb on purpose it would seem.
     
  5. Grant

    Grant Now let that bass fall in! Oh yeah!

    Location:
    United States
    No, you are being arrogant. Are you sure you're a lawyer? If you say you are, OK, but, I have friends who are lawyers and you sure aren't talking like one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  6. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    Music files are not a computer program, if that's what you mean by software. That's one exception under UK law: backup of computer programs, e.g., itunes (the program, not the files, although Apple gave you permission to back up files purchased from its store). You are also allowed to record broadcasts to listen to or view at a later date, commonly called time shifting (although there is no specific details on how long those broadcasts can be held: are those dusty VHS recordings from the 80s still fair use?).
     
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  7. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Pay me $400 an hour and I'll write like a lawyer for you. I've provided my input. I'm done here.
     
  8. humanracer

    humanracer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edinburgh,Scotland
    There are some ways the record industry can fight against such threats:
    Pass a law making it illegal to sell used CDs via Ebay and Discogs OR stipulate that such stores may pay a levy I guess in tax form which goes to the music industry
    Have a minimum pricing structure for CDs
    Put big tax levies on Spotify etc so they have to increase their prices and pay more to the artists

    I am not saying I agree with those at all but they are ideas that could help those corporations recover some lost profits.
     
  9. ElevatorSkyMovie

    ElevatorSkyMovie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Sales of CDs are declining. Do you think the industry cares if you buy a cd, copy it, then re-sell it?

    I think the way things are going, they are happy to have a sale. Technically they are losing a sale from the 2nd person,
    but for people that buy used, I suspect most are like me, they very seldom buy new cds.
     
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  10. Grant

    Grant Now let that bass fall in! Oh yeah!

    Location:
    United States
    Ah, but if it just weren't for that damn pesky First Sale Doctrine.
     
  11. Mothmanica

    Mothmanica Forum Cryptid

    Location:
    Australia
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Zombeels

    Zombeels Forum Resident

    What if you have your CD collection ripped to your hard-drive and then your whole CD collection is stolen. Are you supposed to delete those files?
     
    Grant likes this.
  13. Grant

    Grant Now let that bass fall in! Oh yeah!

    Location:
    United States
    This is a question these legal militants can't answer.
     
  14. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Yes

    If you had scanned images of all the cash in your wallet to your hard drive, then your wallet got stolen, it would not nake it permissible to color print and spend copies of the cash. Though you could provide the images to the police to help them catch the thief using the serial #s from the stolen bills.

    If you want insurance against theft, buy insurance.

    I actually got replacement value for a collection of about 500 CDs that were stolen, based on my parents having a home owner's insurance policy that covered me in 1989.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
    melstapler likes this.
  15. Mr. LP Collector

    Mr. LP Collector Forum Resident

    He stepped on his d--- when he went along with CEMA and was the initial spokesman for this hair brained idea. Well, it backfired on CEMA because that letter that was sent to the stores telling them that you don't get Brooks' new release because you are selling used product. IIRC it was around 1993 when this came up. How did the record buying public think of it? Well, I just happened to visit friends in the Los Angeles area when Rockaway Records had a "Garth Buck$ Bar-B-Q's " bonfire at their store parking lot. The LA Times had a story on it as well, IIRC there were several of these type demonstrations.
     
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  16. Mr. LP Collector

    Mr. LP Collector Forum Resident

     
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  17. Crawdad

    Crawdad Detroit Rock Citizen

    This
     
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  18. John Rhett Thomas

    John Rhett Thomas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Macon, GA, USA
    I think you pay him an undue favor when you say he merely "went along" with this scheme. Narrowing consumer flexibility in legally acquiring his "product"* means more sales of the same albums to the same people, which means his quest to dethrone The Beatles and Elvis Presley as the greatest of all time can continue with maximum force. I don't think it would take all that much persuasion to get Garth to "go along" with a plan like this.

    * Garth is fond of calling his artistic output "product" which just shows where his mind is most of the time.
     
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  19. Grant

    Grant Now let that bass fall in! Oh yeah!

    Location:
    United States
    I just noticed that he has remixed and repackaged his albums in yet a now configuration for the Christmas season, like anyone cares 20-some years after his drop from fame.
     
  20. zphage

    zphage inappropriately touching the out of touch

    Outlawing used cd sales could be a useful strategy to increasing cheap cd values via a used cd black market, bring it on.
     
  21. Zombeels

    Zombeels Forum Resident

    That's one of the most idiotic statements I've seen.
    -First of all I really doubt there is any law in the world that states that you are supposed to destroy your files if the original hard copies are stolen. That is why you make copies in the first place. They are back up files which you paid for.
    -Second, your analogy with money is horrible and inaccurate. A better analogy would be if you bought some art and that art was stolen but you had taken some pictures or scans of that art so you can still enjoy the art . Your not trying to resell the art just like I'm not trying to make money or resell my music files.
    -Third, don't get me started on rip off insurance companies. A friend of mine got many records stolen back in the 80's. Some were priceless records. The insurance company gave him about $4 per record and the average price of a record was $12 at the time. This was not counting many albums he had that were priced higher than $35 each. Also when I had a small portion of my CDs stolen it still took me over 18 years to replace all those CDs and I'm still looking for 2 of them. I'm glad I made copies so at least I can still enjoy listening to the music I paid for. I dare anyone to try and take me to court for it.
     
    Grant likes this.
  22. Grant

    Grant Now let that bass fall in! Oh yeah!

    Location:
    United States
    Thank you! Destroying the digital backups of your lost collection defeats the purpose of backing up your music.

    Damn! My house burned down and I lost all my CDs. But, it's alright. I have my backup at my mom's house...oh, wait...I guess I gotta call my mom and have her destroy the backups too.
    :rolleyes:
     
  23. Yes, like getting up to 10 years possible confinement, ala the UK, for downloading a Taylor Swift album, whereas as you kill her by accident you can get less time behind bars. Apparently legal AND ethical to the copyright nozis.
     

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