Ethically purchasing used compact discs: ?

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Cherrycherry, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road

    The music industry has made more money out of me than any other, yes even the taxman.
    I buy new and secondhand, but predominantly new.
    If stuff didn't go out of print so quickly, I would probably buy more new.

    If secondhand cds were made illegal, that just means some bands will never be discovered by me. Just like record companies that block YouTube links, that's where I often discover stuff I didn't know .... then if they are any good, or appeal to me, buy their albums, new.
     
    Louise Boat likes this.
  2. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Good grief, of course it's ethical, as the poll results clearly reflect. It's a piece of tangible property you bought, within a legal regime that specifically permits resale, which all interested persons know or should know. You'd have to make a very convoluted argument to hold the contrary position, about the transaction denying a third party or parties potential income, but that's the case with virtually any transaction.
     
    Grant likes this.
  3. all24bits

    all24bits Well-Known Member

    Location:
    USA
    Are the people who are opposed to second hand sales of CDs also opposed to used vinyl record sales, second hand shops, and used book and DVD sales?
     
    Louise Boat and Grant like this.
  4. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Respectfully disagree. For starters, the argument that "Unless someone can point to an express grant of permission to make a digital copy of a CD, that act in itself is a clear violation of the copyright statute" would read the fair-use doctrine right out of the law and is plainly inconsistent with Supreme Court precedent. Making a backup copy of a CD is widely recognized as fair use; a quick Google search will reveal this. While that might not be all that persuasive in itself, the lack of prosecution is telling. Most importantly, private, noncommerical "time-shifting" of copyrighted material for subsequent personal use has been sanctioned as lawful by the Supreme Court, in the "Betamax Case," and it is very easy to apply that reasoning to the related concept of "space-shifting," which is all you are doing when ripping a CD for playback from another component.

    Perhaps if the matter ever were tested, the specific facts would determine the case, such that if one were ripping for the purpose of resale, the rip would be outside the bounds of fair use. The sale however would never be illegal, as it is specifically protected by the statute.
     
    Raunchnroll likes this.
  5. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    The RIAA site is instructive on the copying issue, at least from the standpoint of the label side and its members.
     
  6. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    You know, I was fascinated by the subject of fair use in the context of television at the time and managed to get a seat during oral argument (the first one) before the Supremes in the Betamax case. The Chief Justice started by saying "Justice Brennan can't join us for argument today, but we are recording it for him to listen to later-- now, let's hear that argument, gents." It did get a few chuckles. I was firmly against contorting fair use law to accommodate what should have been addressed by statutory exemptions, but that's another issue and one not worth arguing about here in this context.
     
    quicksrt and SBurke like this.
  7. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    For sure, especially the latter part. :) There are a bunch of discussions from around 2007 or 2008 suggesting the RIAA believed then that ripping for personal use was unlawful. (I have no recollection.) On this page however they seem to have gotten more sensible and backed away from that position: About Piracy - RIAA
     
  8. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    That must been awesome. I actually have never been to a S.Ct. argument. As to your concern re fair use, I'm interested . . . I'm sure we can wander off on a polite digression in this thread. I suspect few are watching at this point. I also have an appearance in a fair-use case near the end of this week, so it wouldn't hurt to exercise the brain a bit. :cheers:
     
  9. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    That is not a valid comparison, both ethically and legally.
     
  10. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    How about: The thief ought to be mandated by law to steal the hard drive as well.
     
    beccabear67 likes this.
  11. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    A law against selling used CDs (and vinyl records and tapes?) would mean we are officially on the cube shaped Bizarro planet Earth. "Me am hate Beatles and Thin Lizzy and love Mitch Miller music best now!"
     
    Louise Boat likes this.
  12. baptistbusman

    baptistbusman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bloomsdale, MO
    In reality when we buy a brand new cd from amazon or Walmart they have already been purchased from the artist and they are being resold to us.
     
    Gumboo likes this.
  13. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    ....rip 'em / copy 'em / use 'em as coasters, the music industry and the public moved years ago....most of the thrift stores I see cant sell 'em for a buck each

    unless this is just a debate for debates sake....then carry on
     
    Louise Boat and Grant like this.
  14. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Its a huge problem and dangerous. There are police everywhere and SWAT teams dedicated to finding people keeping back up copies and buying used CDs. Never mind the vast corruption going on in politics and homeless issues now swamping progressive cities. You used CD owners will regret the day you forked over 1.99 instead of looking for the 20 year out of print but still brand new copy in a store.
     
    Mothmanica, Dave and quicksrt like this.
  15. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident



    16....I talked to the doctor himself
     
  16. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    And FAST!!! too.
     
  17. Grant

    Grant Now let that bass fall in! Oh yeah!

    Location:
    United States
    Who brought this mess back up from the dead?
     
    Spitfire likes this.
  18. markreed

    markreed Forum Resident

    Location:
    Imber
    In the UK at least, the note says "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of..."

    It's not the piece of paper itself that matters. Its whats written on the note that matters.
     
  19. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    The chances are they will steal your hard drive rather than your CD collection.
     
    Grant likes this.
  20. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    This poll should be:

    Is it Ethically right to clone your hard drive and then share it after ripping all of your compact discs and trading them in for drink, drugs, and party money?
     
  21. Kingsley Fats

    Kingsley Fats Forum Resident

    From an article I read today

    The truth – as the BPI’s latest figures show – is that 74 percent of music consumption in the UK is now via streaming, with 18 percent from physical album sales. That 18 percent equates to 28 million physical albums sold in the UK, of which – wait for it – just 4.3 million were vinyl. Around 15 percent of the total. CDs have 84 percent of that market. Despite the downward sales trend, even in their report, the BPI said that the CD was “resilient”.

    CD's still represent the largest portion of physical sales

    2019 UK sales figures

    CD's 23.5 Million
    Vinyl 4.3 Million

    So maybe some well researched facts need to be added to the debate.

    Saturday Deluxe: 18 January 2020 | superdeluxeedition
     
    Mr. LP Collector likes this.
  22. Gaslight

    Gaslight

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Ummmmm
    [​IMG]

    In my defense, it was linked from another thread. So I was coerced I swear
     
    Dave, Grant and Oatsdad like this.
  23. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Probably the same person who revived that cursed "was Pete Best really a bad drummer?" thread! :laugh:
     
    Grant likes this.
  24. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Given your username, I question the veracity of this statement! :shh:
     
    Gaslight likes this.
  25. Gaslight

    Gaslight

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Reopened by request
     

Share This Page