Ethically purchasing used compact discs: ?

Never fear, a Supreme Court decision a few years ago on"First Sale" and current federal statutes recognize that for physical copies of books, cds, records.....

1854. Copyright Infringement -- First Sale Doctrine

 

I don't agree. I mean, not that I fall on the side of eliminating the first sale doctrine. But sales of intellectual property are different than, say, selling a shirt. Probably no one has a copyright interest in the shirt (there may of course be a logo or a saying or a character or something like that printed on the shirt, though). So the resale of a used shirt doesn't involve the same issue of competing property right interests. With music we have property -- the copyright interests in the recording and in the song publishing -- and we have property -- the CD. Their ownership is in separate hands -- the buyer owns the CD, but he or she doesn't own the intellectual property the CD contains. When that CD is resold, where is the value at resale -- is it in the CD itself, or is it in the intellectual property it contains? If the value is in the intellectual property, why is it reasonable for the law to allow third parties to resell someone else's property without compensation? I don't think it's an unreasonable question to ponder. And I don't think it's the same thing as say, re-selling a house, or re-selling a power drill.

 

Right, but whether something is legal and whether something is ethical are two separate considerations.

 

So no reselling of books or DVDs or videotapes or paintings or...

And I don't see this as different than reselling a power drill. If I buy a used power drill, Black and Decker loses a sale on a new one - they make $0 from that purchase.

Same deal!

 

Not the same thing. Nobody is suggesting that it might be illegal to sell the Gibson the CD was made with. Intellectual property is a very complex matter.

 

This topic usually comes up closer to the holidays, like near the middle of the depressing and stressful time you are maybe supposed to be shopping for gifts and are being told to be happy because it’s the happiest time of the year.

And then some bitter judgemental types come out to point fingers at others’ way of collecting and consuming music. And then it gets nasty, runs a while until it’s all shut down.... until next time.

Thanksgiving is coming, and let’s all be thankful for all the great music we’ve gotten to hear!

 

Intellectual property is a complex matter. Selling a CD is not a complex matter. The first sale doctrine explains it all in terms a child can understand.

 

Amen

 

I've never given it a second thought.

 

So legally: yes you have every right to buy and sell new and used CDs

But ethically: that’s up to you to decide

 

I don't agree with copyright law in general. I think it's an ad hoc artifact of a very poorly designed economic system. So there's no way I'm going to have a problem with used media sales.

 

Until someone can suggest a workable structure in which the alleged injustice of record labels not getting paid from resale of records and CDs is solved, this "ethical discussion" is insipid. Setting aside the concept that record labels somehow deserve to be paid multiple times over for the sale of the same physical object they create, there is no method in which money could efficiently flow to the labels or publishers or whomever once an item is resold at retail, or online, or at yard sales, or at pawn shops, or at flea markets, or friend-to-friend. Let alone setting up a legal framework where malefactors can be punished by the law for this non-crime.

I hope nobody outside of maybe hardcore, gray matter-muddled Garth fans is genuinely taking this seriously.

 

And if it bugs people to buy used CDs/vinyl/whatever, then they don't have to do it.

90% of the CDs I buy are used because I pursue specific early pressings. How could I buy those new?

 

As a general rule, I buy lots of used and new items. The items that are often available new and still in print are exactly the types of big sellers that have sold plenty, so much so that the artist has made plenty of money. I don't mind buying Pink Floyd or REM used, because they made more money in a night than I have in a year, and in some cases, more gross in one night than I've earnt through my entire life so far.

I don't mind at all paying what I think is a fair price for items : but some of the abusive pricepoint releases I will not buy new on principle, such as the David Bowie and the new Pink Floyd box sets. Too much money for not enough content by a business that has had thousands of my pounds over the decades already - and has hundreds of millions in the bank. I need that money more than you do. The Estate of David Bowie will never go broke even if they never sold another record. I need that £85 more than I need a 5CD box set of old demos. I'll spend that £85 keeping a live, struggling, smaller band I like in food thank you.

For smaller acts and obscure releases, where I can buy new, I buy new. Where the release is deleted, hard to find or the available version is substantially different (such as an alternate, lesser master - or similar) I'll buy used. The used market feeds the artist indirectly. A second hand copy of an album leads to extra spending when the artist tours, or releases new stuff.

 

I think you are missing my point.

 

Well, it could be solved relatively easily with record keeping and a tax at point of sale that compensates the sound recording and publishing copyright holders in some way -- it's not just record labels it's songwriters and artists and others who get royalties on the money collected at first sale. We do something like that in the US when it comes to set marketing and sale of recordable media for music. I'm not saying we should. I don't believe that recordable media tax is fair, and I'm perfectly find with the first sale doctrine, I'm just saying compensation to copyright holders on the re-sale of CDs really shouldn't be that much harder than collecting sales tax, or a licensing agency collecting performance royalties. Of course there's always going to be sales that escape, just like there are sellers of goods and services out there not collecting sales taxes as they should.

 

Not one ounce of guilt do I feel about buying used. The record companies don't feel guilty about screwing the Artist. So screw the record companies.

 

Just saw this thread. When you or the original owner bought the cd from the store or online, the label or rights holder was paid whatever they get paid. They’re entitled to one payment only. So if you decide to sell the cd, that is solely your business.

 

Same here

If the label responsible for these songs would re issue these masterings then I would buy them new. But they don’t give me the option

 

I don't actually buy the CDs for the masterings - I buy 'em for the paint. I only pursue CDs pressed from 1982 to roughly 1989.

Only way I can buy these new would be either to find a stash at some store that has held them for 30+ years or to invent a time machine!

 

I sit on a computer taking crap from people on the phone for 40 hours a week and make good money in a year but money that somebody like Paul McCartney makes in a day - if I sell my 1987 used Abbey Rd Cd for the new one I don't think it's a problem and hell, he's selling me the same music AGAIN LOL

 

Agreed but with a caveat; In 2019 recordable media is nearing anachronism status. Sales of -R stuff is dropping of the table. Many like myself have already given up on it. Don't need it for the home or the auto. BTW I have over 1500 Taiyo [the real stuff; pre CMC and pre JVC] DVD's and CD in temp controlled storage haven't used a single blank in 6 months.

 

Which is a fair point. If musicians can "force us" to rebuy their music over and over via new formats or better versions, then I don't see an ethical issue with used products.

If you wanna get into ethics, it'd be ethical for artists to let you trade-in older versions for new ones!

 

I bought the product, everybody has been compensated, I can sell the product in the future.

What I cant do is take the product, make copies, and sell those, or replicate it onto other mediums, and profit from that.

 

Did you know that Paul McCartney makes as much money in a minute as a spent on my black triangle.

But if you feel the need to write Paul a check for 64 cents so he is compensated, go ahead