EVG and Pfanstiehl nude elliptical list

Arriving Monday 08/24/2020 at Russell Industries(EVG brand):

PM2279DE AT ATS13 - NUDE
PM2322DE AT ATN3651E – NUDE
PM2865DE Sony ND200E, ND250E - NUDE
PM2983DE Nagaoka JN322 - NUDE
PM3168DE Shure N97ED – NUDE
PM3173DE Shure N92ED – NUDE

 

Well, well, well. I just had a friend check EVG nude ellipticals under a microscope that were returned because the base of the tip was rotated. The business end of the tip is NOT rotated. It is aligned perfectly.

 

I was told yesterday that there will be NO Pfanstiehl nude ellipticals. I cannot update the first post in this thread to reflect same.

 

Do they have square or round shanks?

 

Shank is square, holes are round. They must not square the diamond rods when they form the tips. So they have to scope and shadow graph them to ensure alignment. Same process as with the bonded ellipticals.

 

Late to this thread, but are the new stock actual Nude Elipticals or modified conicals ? Are they sourced from Jico or PF ? Thanks in advance.

 

Pfanstiehl does not make magnetic needles except for the GE RPX and VR II which are manufactured in Rockford, IL. All other Pfanstiehl magnetics are sourced from Switzerland as are EVG needles. All EVG ellipticals are nude true ellipticals. They are not faux ellipticals ground from conicals. The EVG ellipticals are made according to the Bruce Diamond Corporation patent.
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/33/f0/3a/dbbe2c556cf1a9/US3534968.pdf

 

Has anybody actually seen a nude PM4000DE in the wild? I have managed to find a couple of sellers that have the P-mount style PM4023DE in stock (KAB and rivertone.stylus on eBay) but not in the old Pickering P-mount style. I'm not sure if there is any practical difference (e.g. in tracking force) between the two but it would be nice to have the option.

 

They should be available directly from Russell Industries. Email Neil: [email protected]

 

Thanks. I ended up getting the PM4023DE from rivertone (at least I think that's what it is--it came in an unmarked bulk box, and there is a black dot on top of the plastic case) and think it sounds rather thin in comparison with my DATE4. Actually, I also recently got an early DAME (with accompanying cart) and both of them don't quite sound right, maybe because I'm using with the 10mV NP/AT on a Technics...? (Don't mean to derail, can create different thread for this.)

 

Please don't worry about a 'derail'. There is not much news or activity as of late. I would imagine that the DATE4 does sound less 'thin'. The DATE4 has a stiffer suspension and a larger more powerful magnet. In addition to a more robust sound, the DATE4 probably has better dynamics as well. Everything is a tradeoff.

 

I've been eyeballing the PM2322DE on Ebay for $35 to add to my beer budget AT-3600L cart. Have you had a chance to listen to it yet? Worth spending any money on, or should I hold off for one of the other upgrades?

 

Fair enough!

Aha! But, I'm not sure what the advantage here is--"detail"/high frequency response? I wonder if I should try it with a bit more force (2g+) or if this is a Bad Idea.

I broke down and ordered one of these earlier last week, too, still waiting on it. Postal service seems to be a bit slow (for them) these past few days, fwiw.

 

Only you can describe the advantage. It's what you hear. There are many people who prefer the sound of a heavier tracking(with larger magnet in most cases by default)
needle. Usually it is a conical with rather higher than 2 gram tracking. I consider 2.0 grams rather light. 3.0 grams is my personal limit. Although if I were fortunate enough to own Ortofon SPU's I would track them at the recommended force. I have not tried the PM2322DE. There are 54 models of EVG ellipticals so the chances of my having tried a specific model is slim. I have the EVG 'Pickering' D1200's on hand. I have a Pickering XV-15 mounted but it is in a Garrard Lab 80 headshell. That would be a tonearm effective mass/stylus compliance mismatch IF the current 1200's are as compliant as the previous version. I have sold a few but have no feedback of any sort.

 

Cool. Please post your findings once you get it.

 

Oh sure! But presumably there is some consensus among those who prefer lighter trackers on what the relative advantage could be in terms of sound quality? Am I wrong?

Right this much I've gathered. I run my AT3600L at 3g and PD07C at 3.5g (less than this the AT is dubious, and I haven't tried lower with the Pickering). But was under the impression that running elliptical styli at such high forces is particularly damaging to records, and that this is part of why lighter-tracking ellipticals are prized (this has especially been true of the conversation with respect to Pickering, I have found). Also, I don't know if there is some risk to e.g. the cantilever running this specific stylus significantly heavier than its official range (0.75-1.5g I believe). (Am a bit of a novice to all this, in case it wasn't clear. Came across the NP/AT cart on a table I bought mainly for parts, and now I've been going down the rabbit hole for two weeks solid, haha...)

You have not tried it yourself despite this potential compliance mismatch? (Wait, do I have this problem?)

Will do!

 

wow, excellent thread!
new here, but wanted to chime in. I just recently bought a nude stylus from rivertone.stylus as well for my M91ED. it sounds great! and I too am eyeballing the PM2322DE to try on the 3600L, so I am eager to hear feedback.
i have pics of the M91ed stylus, and i am trying to figure out how to share/insert them

 

I think I figured it out

 

Well, I opted for the LP Gear Vivid Line ATN-3600DLXVL. Should be up in running within the week. We'll see how it fair against my VM-95SH shibata at half the price.

 

So within rated tracking-force range (1.5g-2.5g), the PM2322DE is very sibilant. Increased to 3.25g, much better but not killed. Ditto IGD (or what I think? is IGD). Even with the sibilance, initial impression OK--nothing incredibly wrong. Can sound *very* nice with the right content. Highs v prominent but lows still kick. Stock stylus might have a more balanced sound, but as a result, less engaging? More surface noise on stock (I think). It's not obvious, at any rate. I did a few captures, but my problem is, I really need to clean these records properly. The newer ones are less problematic though, and even some of the used ones sounds nice but, you know, noisy. I can try using RX-7 to clean up but I think this would defeat the purpose a little--I have not used it with music yet, anyway. One other thing, do not even think of running this on an LP60X or similar 'basic Hanpin'. We have one of these as a tertiary table. Without modifying the tonearm to get the weight down (I measured this at 4.4g for me) it will sound horrendous, though at least doesn't skip. Adding a makeshift counterweight to get the weight down to within stated range and it sounds awfully sibilant and skips a lot; adding less weight so that it's ~3.2-3.3g and it still doesn't quite track. Sticking with stock 3600L there.

The PM4023DE Pickering nude has been if anything more disappointing. It is not listenable below like 2.5g (scratchy, immediately stopped playback) and does not compare to my DATE4, DLE or DE (these last two I've just gotten, used, but both sound p solid, especially the DE which absolutely kills surface noise while tracking at 1.2, perhaps even lower though have not tried). Makes me wonder if I have the genuine article or what. Mine has a small black dot on it, if that means anything.

Will try to clean and do proper caps this weekend or next week. I say proper but one limitation is my preamp, which has fixed input capacitance of 220pf. Cables, tonearm, and headshell wires add like 142pf all told (I measured it). So the setup is not perfect for the cartridges I am using. Am eyeballing a Bellari VP-549/Music Hall Mini Plus but this won't be an immediate purchase. Can remove the capacitors from my current preamp, a modified Cambridge 640p, but this is not something I've done before (I bought it with the cap and opamp mods already done).

 

Looking fwd to hearing about this. The Vivid Lines appear to be generally well-regarded. I've been eyeballing their D71VL since this is the only line contact/stereohedron/shibata option for Pickering V15/Stanton 500 that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, if you can even find it. The DSR-S and D2LS styli are both unobtanium; there are several Tonar Shibatas (I'm assuming the difference between them is tracking force ratings) that I'm pretty sure are no longer made, but you have to import them from Europe, and the VL even at $95 ends up costing half as much after accounting for exchange rates and shipping. Odd thing is I've seen zero testimonials of either despite how many long threads about various Pickering styli there are out there.

 

Have given the LP Gear Vivid Line ATN-3600DLXVL a couple of brief spins so far. First impressions - it sounds really good right out of the box. "Vivid" is an appropriate descriptor. Nice detail and balance, easy on sibilants, fairly dynamic....lively with a good sound stage. Overall, very pleasant and interesting to listen to. I need more time with it, and it needs several hours of run-in time to really know its true colors. I did spend a few minutes comparing it with my VM95SH......the VL doesn't seem quite as good, but it's not that far off, and has several similarities. No real real surprise that not it's quite on par with the 95SH, but it's good enough that I was actualy a tad disappointed that it didn't eclipse it, but why should it? It's half the cost and I think it has bonded shank.

All in for < $95 for the 3600L cart and the VL stylus upgrade....it's a screaming deal. What can beat it for that price?

 

The AT-LP60(X) uses a spring-counterbalanced tonearm, so you need to measure it at the correct VTA to get an accurate reading. Placing an ordinary scale on top of the platter will give you an inaccurately high reading.

As demonstrated with my Pioneer PL-990, which uses the same kind of spring-counterbalanced tonearm:

Scale on platter, incorrect VTA, inaccurately high reading:


Platter removed, scale placed at correct VTA, to get the correct reading of the turntable's actual tracking force:

 

I am aware of how it works, in fact I bought the table based on watching your videos (an open-box special, one of the ones with the built-in headphone amps) which are quite informative. But I'm not sure why you insist on measuring the tracking force here using this incredibly large scale that has such a tall (for this context) measurement platter rather than the kinds of stylus force gauges, digital or not, that people on these fora in particular are actually going to be using, which are all reasonably close to the height of an actual record. I measured this using two different such stylus force gauges, the common cheap digital type as well as the fancy riverstone.audio type and they were fairly close to each other at around 4.4 (which itself is within spec for the basic Hanpin table--from what I can tell it is not 3.5g on the nose, but 3.5g +/- a gram--you will see it listed this way in older manuals for such tables). Removing the mat and platter decreases the force but at that point, using this tool, it is very obviously being measured below where the stylus would actually, leastways with these tools. In any case, I know what I heard when I tried this stylus on this table at various forces, and can't recommend it. With no additional counterweight at all, it sounds incredibly and frighteningly distorted (and nothing like what it does on my Technics at 3.2-3.3). I'd do a capture demonstrating it but frankly don't want to subject my records to that. If I could get a cheap new one maybe I will, but like. I know what I heard...

 

...oh boy, that whole thing needs a quick edit. Looks like that button goes away rather quickly, haha