Female vocals metallic overtone. The cause?

The decoder (either software or HW) is meant for decoding DolbyA material. It cannot help, and in fact WILL ALMOST DEFINITELY HURT when used on material that isn't DolbyA encoded. Sometimes the damage is just a bit of gating, but other times it can make the high-end rough sounding -- almost grainy. Sometimes the recording becomes dead sounding. It is hit or miss, depending upon the specific situation that the DolbyA can help. Always it needs to be encoded (sometimes the material is EQed instead of decoded -- as I noted below.)

A simple mic with excessive 5-10k WILL NOT be helped by any kind of DolbyA decoding. When I listened to some of the examples pointed to from here, they were NOT (definitely not) leaked DolbyA encoded, and at least one other was LIKELY DolbyA encoded.

For example, I have a fairly large collection of ABBA from various sources, some are properly processed (e.g. most vinyl rips done by friends, that I have), but the digital versions are fairly often DolbyA encoded. Sometimes I have found that instead of DolbyA decoding before distribution, the distributor will simply do something like -3dB @ 3k/Q=0.707. I have also found SOME -3dB @ 9k/Q=0.707 either along with the 3k and sometimes alone. I have even found a case or two of -3dB @ 9k/Q=1.0.

There is very little consistency on the distribution... I have even found a (off topic) common use of compresison/limiting (like a rock top40 FM broadcaster) where the peak-RMS has been mashed to 14-15dB (which is generally lousy dynamic range), and pushed the crest factor down to 4.5 to 5.0. Normally the material would have peak-RMS of (from a DolbyA recording) approx 18-21dB and a crest factor generally 7 or greater.

So like I wrote above, you really cannot trust the quality of the distributions. BTW, I like ABBA, but don't 'love' them. The reason for my use of their recordings in testing is that I first noticed the encoding on one of their 1992/1993 ABBA Gold/More ABBA Gold distributions. That encouraged me to do a survey on trying to find out what kind of processing that had been done on a single group of recordings. I also use them as test material because some of their recordings are very difficult to properly decode. I have a group of approx 5-10 recordings that are especially obnoxious -- and if my software successfully processes those, then I have confidence that it works reasonably well.

BTW, whenever possible, I try to use digital copies of vinyl albums for my base reference -- but even then, I have noticed significant (not extreme like the peak-RMS of 14dB above) processing on those. (Usually just a bit of limiting or milde compression.) I was surprised to find that the amount of HF processing wasn't extreme, and, of course much damage to bass isn't really needed unless there is a significant amount of bass energy on the recording.

John

 

Thanks! Appreciate the detail explanation.

 

I guess the metallic overtone is not limited to female. Male too.

I like the quality of this YouTube video. But can sense the metallic overtones of vocals. Not too distracting, but is there. Is it the microphone? Compression? Digital mastering?

 

Some people really do like compression -- the only reason why I do not like much compression is that I have learned what it sounds like. Eventually, I have gotten tired of that kind of sound. I write things like compressors, limiters, expanders (sometimes NR optimized), and all kinds of things like that. I often do not like the sound of what I design (even though very good for what it does.) I DO tend to like the results of well designed expanders and NR oriented expander like devices.

Compressors are DEFINITELY sometimes useful, but are recently WAY TOO OFTEN used or abused. Sometimes a mild compression ratio of 1.2:1 with a dynamic attack/release time is enough to wake up a recording. Extreme FM broadcast (for rock stations) type compressor/limiters/clippers/signal-reinventors shouldn't be used for consumer recordings (except for effects -- not as a general practice) -- but it seems like they (or their cousins) are.

Nowadays we have more than adequate dynamic range in our delivery to the consumer -- except for maybe mobile applications -- ambient dynamic range not sufficient, where (IMO) the compression should locally be done so the consumer can choose how much dynamic range that they want.

John

 

Good to know there are compressor/limiters/clippers/signal-reinventors used in radio stations. I often find many popular pop songs from FM radio stations unlistenable.

 

Well, I'm 54, but then again, I've had the Come Away With Me album since it came out, which was in 2002, so 17 years.

I've heard it on several hifi systems, on different sets of headphones and have yet to come up with an adjective like "metallic" to describe the vocal qualities on this album on any of those.

Have your speakers a particularly aggressive tweeter maybe?

 

Thanks! As described in post #3, it is not specific to just my living room's speakers.

I would not described the vocal as metallic either. I just listened to both YouTube version and CD quality wav file version with my living room system. It is enjoyable still. But, I can hear that slight metallic hint in both versions. I am curious where that slight metallic hint came from.

 

Terminology I think my friend. I don't experience something I would reasonably call metallic when I gear that album and that's as someone who particularly enjoys clarity in playback. I don't favour "warm" sounding gear.

Incidentally, while you might not call it metallic, you've watered it down to slightly metallic!

 

How about this one. Do you hear anything that is not normally heard in human vocal?

 

I don't have headphones beside me just now, and don't know the piece at all. I may listen later however.

 

Thanks! Or this one. I think it is the microphone?

My wife and I can hear the unnatural metallic tones. It is almost like the microphone can't handle the vocal properly. My wife described it as "crackling".

 

Why not use an alternative source (eg a quality cd player) to learn if that solves the problem? Than at least you know where your problem lies.

Most recordings you mention are very well-regarded from an engineering point of view.

 

The best I have is Oppo 203....playing CD quality wav files from USB drive and stream to my preamp. I can observe some hint of high pitch tone with my speakers. Using headset, can observe slight hint too. Could be just me. May be something about my hearing....

Can you hear anything unnatural in post #86 video?

 

I couldn't say, as I do not have an internet connection to my system.

I recommend that you borrow a cd player from someone and connect it to your amp, and compare with your streaming audio. Collecting opinions on this forum whether or not people perceive a certain YT video as metallic is of little value IMO.

 

I heard the songs originally with actual CD player and CD many years ago. YouTube videos were given as an example since I can hear it too.

Those are well thought of songs, thus I listened to them. : )

Some people hear it, some don't. But I guess I am not alone.

You don't have a headset to listen to the videos in your computer or phone?

 

There's no way we could seriously address this. We'd have to hear your system.

 

No need to be serious. Some said yes, some said no, and some said a little, but not distracting.

I am just curious if you hear it? I heard Nora Jones years ago, using CD with CD player. I could hear it then. I can also hear it now using YouTube with a simple full range headset with my Note9 phone.

May be is just my hearing? I have ear issue where I hear constant very high pitch tone. May be that issue is causing me to hear extra metallic hint for vocals? But if I listen to live singing like my daughter singing right in front of me, no such issue at all. I am thinking this is an artifacts of using microphone, or using digital processing.

If you have headset and a phone, try it out just for fun. See if you hear something unnatural. Thanks!

 

I have a solid state, almost all digital set up too, and I don't hear it. Maybe it's you speakers. Like I said, there's no way to answer this question without hearing your system.

 

I agree.

I have both Diana Krall's Live In Paris and the Norah Jones, Come Away With Me on CD and neither of them are remotely metallic sounding.

Nor are any of the other female vocal CD's that I have.

 

Please see my post #3. This is regardless of speakers or room. Thanks for checking!

 

Thanks for checking! I would not described any of them as metallic sounding either. I can hear slight sort of artifacts in the vocal. I describe those as metallic kind of crackling noise almost like the microphone are imparting additional harmonic vibration.

Like I mentioned in my other post, I hear no such artifacts listen to my daughter sings.

Strange that I can hear it in my car, my phone, and my system.

 

I don't see any particular reason that you are hearing a metallic sound. I looked over your equipment listing earlier and that was my thought

 

You see, just announcing the name brand of your speakers means nothing. The room means nothing. We would have to hear them.

With that, good luck in your search for answers. I just stopped by to point out the folly in your question. I am now unsubscribing. Have fun.

 

No need to come. Actually, my daughter and wife are fine with the songs I mentioned in my first post. : (

 

May be this is exactly how human vocal sounds when recorded in close range? The microphone is very sensitive and picking up all those minor vocal vibrations that I typically won't hear from a few feet away?

I am used to listening to live, unamplified, singings from a few feet away and those slight metallic overtones were not obvious to me.