Fifty year old phono cartridges

Agreed. It cant be that hard to make these styli. I mean, they made a laser turntable!!! And there is at least *some* demand among vintage audio and jukebox fans.

 

Right now I am listening to a GE VR 225 as I have a 0.5 mil stylus in it. At 4 grams it cannot track Genesis Abacab. The drum beats knock it out of the groove. LOL. But the Supremes play okay. A bit distorted but not too bad.

 

ELAC ESG 795 E 40 from around 1980. I bought this NOS and cheap a few years back.

I really dig this MM cartridge. tracks at a very light 0.75gm's. This thing is lightning quick and open sounding - reminds me of the Lyra Helikon so may perceived as slightly lean if not under control.

 

also playing around with an old Empire 1080LT - real smooth sounding MM but a little lacking in overall detail, tracks at 1.25 and definitely benefits from 100k loading than the normal 47k

 

I bought a set of used NAD equipment. I wanted a pair of Acoustic Research AR 3a's(since I was a teenager and now I am 63 LOL) but I knew I would have to get a proper amp as the 3a's are known as amp destroyers. So I got an NAD C162 preamp and NAD C272 along with a tuner and CD deck(which of course died although my ancient Marantz DV 18 MK II is still going strong). Anyway, the preamp has MC input. I had read that MC cartridges are difficult due to amplification requirements. Hiss and hum. I decided to try for myself. I had my dealer mount an Ortofon Quintet Blue onto my Rega RB202 tonearm. No hiss or hum from the preamp. The Ortofon sounds better than any MM or MI that I have heard. Notice I said that I have heard. I have not heard them all but I have 53 years into this. My GE VR 1000 trounces it on dynamics, clarity, and channel separation. But the Ortofon can track anything in my collection. The GE cannot. In case you are not familiar, all GE VR cartridges generate the signal at the stylus tip area as opposed to the opposite end of the cantilever like all other cartridges except the London Decca.

 

Hi !
I don't know if I answered this. The seller has one more by some miracle that he is sending to me. I don't know if it is an EV 2750(0.5 mil) or EV 2743(0.7 mil). When it arrives, I will mount the headshell on the tonearm, set VTF to 3 grams(the 'max' for this cartridge/stylus and give it a whirl. I will post the results of course.

 

The VR 1000 spec sheet states 1mv output, for both the -5 & the -7. That is VERY low - especially for that era.
Is that reported in a different unit of measure or something?

 

5mv for the -5 and 10mv for the -7 is more like it. Let me research what you are seeing.

 

1 mv per cm/sec minimum.... I think usually 5 is the cm factor. So the output would be 5 mv. In the case of the GE VR 1000's the output of the -7 is almost double that of the -5 as the cantilever is thicker and the cantilever directs the flux from one pole of a stationary magnet to the pole pieces which are part of the stylus assembly. Stereo Review

 

Thanks - The spec sheets are on Vinylengine website - That's where I was looking.

 

The third 0.5 mil stylus arrived for my GE VR 1000 arrived today. Like the first two, it is useless. I tried it at 2 grams VTF. Total distortion and skipping. Tried 3 grams. No better. Checked clearance between record and cartridge as the 0.5 mil mil versions have a shorter and smaller shank. Clearance fine. I changed nothing but the stylus....I put my 0.7 mil EV 2743 in and it plays fine. At 3 grams which is the minimum for the cartridge with an original stylus. I would like to track at a bit higher than the minimum but I don't know what the safe max is for a 0.7 mil. It is playing Genesis 'Abacab' fine at 3 grams. I have given up on the 0.5 mil version.

 

Where did u get it?

 

Ebay.

 

The 0.5 mil versions show up once in a while. Prices are all over the place. I paid $25 for one and $142.50 for the other. I will state right here that the sellers have been most understanding and helpful. To summarize so that you do not have to read this entire thread....I have had good luck with the 0.7 mil version. They are designed to track at 3-7 grams. Mine is currently tracking at 3.85 grams. The 0.5 mil is designed to track at 1-3 grams. The cantilever/shank is thinner and (surprisingly) shorter on the 0.5 mil. I have had three of the 0.5 mils and none of them track at all. It seems to be a combination of the small cantilever/shank being rendered immobile by the hardened(because of age) dampening bits. The construction of this particular stylus assembly whether the 0.7 mil or 0.5 mil version places more importance that the shank remain in the proper relationship to the pole pieces than to compliance which directly determines 'trackability'. The shank is anchored at one point and dampened at two others. This is three points of restraint. The ability for the stylus to move in any direction is quite impaired. When stylus number four(another 0.5 mil) arrives, I will post my findings. A part of me hopes that it will work. Another part of me has serious doubts. In 1960, HiFi/Stereo gave the VR 1000-5 a glowing review. I paid particular attention to the statements about high compliance and the ability to track high velocity recordings. The actual compliance figures are more in line with Shure's(at the time) M3D which was one of their lowest compliance cartridges in recent history. (Early to mid 60's). I am of the opinion that the review was influenced by advertising dollars. My interest in the 0.5 mil stylus is due to the lower tracking force and supposed higher compliance enabling me to play my more expensive records such as the recently remastered examples. I noticed that GE spent quite a bit of money promoting the GE VR 1000's. Do a search on 'orthonetic' and you will see how many various magazines had advertising for the VR 1000. If you have any other questions, I will be more than happy to attempt to answer.

Thank you,
John

 

PhxJohn - Thanks for the above post. Are any of your 0.5 mils or 0.7's NOS made by GE?

Well, My "new" 0.7 mil EVG branded replacement stylus for the GE VR 1000 arrived yesterday. I bought it from a well known on-line cart/stylus vendor. Non-eBay. I will not mention any names, since I'm sure they have nothing to do with it's manufacture.

What a piece of Junk this EVG replacement is - virtually no compliance whatsoever. The suspension was virtually stiff cheap white plastic. Nothing like my original, other than a superficial appearance. I knew before I tried it out that it would probably be a record eater. The shank shape did look correct on the EVG unit though. I still have what is left of my original stylus, it just has a worn/chipped off tip - but it still has a nice cushy-soft rubbery suspension, black in color. Not anything like this replacement.

I tried it out as a manual test - set up at 5 grams VTF on my Garrard AT-6 stacker on an old 45 that I could sacrifice. Sure enough, by the end of the record the stylus was full of vinyl shredding. (No - It isn't dirt. LOl!). I was bummed - but only out 20 bucks. It sounded OK, but it's no M44.

 

None of my styli are GE's. I have zero 0.5 mils. Of the three that I have had so far, none work at all. They just skate across the record. All of my NOS are 0.7 mil. I have Pfanstiehl, Duotone, EV(my favorite), and Walco. I have some from 'turntable needles' but I have no idea who made them. The ones that I have that I have looked at have rubber dampeners. BUT.....the last EV 0.5 skater that I got has the white material. I just touched it. Yeah, it is stiff.

 

With a good stylus, I think the GE will shock you. I used to own a M44-5. Nothing wrong with it but it will not catch your attention like the VR 1000.

 

Yeah - I'm sure it was good back in the day. Both versions of the VR 1000 cart are advertised in my 1962 B-A Electronics catalog. 24.45 for the -7, and 29.35 for the -5 in '62 US dollars. That's over 200 dollars today.

Holy Cow - The Shure M3D was $44 back then! I really like the sound from carts of that era. They really match up nice with my vintage tube amps. I have Pickering 380, and the Shure M7D as well. Problem is I can't find any genuine styli that I can trust for the long haul. So I usually stay with M44's or M35X on vintage tube amps for now.

I'm just gonna give up on the GE for now, until I run across something.

 

The only solution to this problem is if one of the stylus manufacturers starts making QUALITY replacements for those old GE needles. otherwise we are SH&* out of luck.

 

I have good NOS but they are 0.7 mil not the supposed lighter tracking 0.5 mil. And the 0.7's do not need to track at 7 grams. I track at 3.85. I probably could go lighter but I don't like to track at the minimum with any cartridge. Plus, it is just an AR tonearm. Something more like an even an Empire 990 would be better for lighter tracking.

 

Johnny, is the Empire tonearm heavier than the AR? Is that the reason it would be better?

 

Hi Mikey !

It is higher mass and it is a lower friction tonearm.

 

Thanks Johnny.


So........ what would you think about using one of those ancient GEs in a Rega tonearm? Too light to work correctly?

 

Old carts sound great to me, until I compare to newer and feel they are lacking in subtle detail, and kinda round off the sound in general and make it fuller and tubbier.
But newer carts sound great to me, until I listen to one of my older ones, and the new one sounds almost sterile in its neutral clean almost thin sound, and all the detail.